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you

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this hope radio for the masses Atlanta

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between July 8 1947

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here are the airports were person up and

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applying this captain found and is now

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in the possession of the RA

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we change the game changer

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I occasionally think how quickly our

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differences worldwide would vanish if we

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were facing an alien threat from outside

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fade to black with your host Jimmy

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church on the GameChanger radio network

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we need your help to get to the year

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you're listening to fade to black with

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good evening fade to black

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the smoke radio

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four masses

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and how you doing today's Monday April

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118 days into the new year only 248 days

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left we're live from a plonker

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summer in the middle of beautiful

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downtown Burbank California that's right

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and I would like to welcome everybody

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listening all around the world

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all across the United States hither and

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thither to and fro back and forth up and

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down east and west north and south far

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this is fade to black for kjc are the

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game changer network in kg ra the

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planets are me Oh Jimmy Church what is

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cracking everybody how you doing it's

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you see the shirt I'm wearing

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by its autograph - Turner autographed

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see I can be a fan I can do it to my

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giorgio sure taught those of you that

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are watching the bunker cap welcome to

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everybody now this is the deal kicking

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off another amazing week here on fade to

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black a crazy weekend for us of course I

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was over at coast to coast on Friday and

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an amazing string of shows last week I'm

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fade to black and very busy all weekend

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long and I managed to get out into a

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couple of things and just like everybody

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else right just just trying to figure

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that thing out that we're going through

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and it looks like over the next week

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certainly you know May first was a

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deadline for a lot of the states around

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the country to to start to loosen up

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things as well as countries around the

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world so too much too soon too early or

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is it safe for every but we'll find out

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looking at when you would know that by

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the beaches of Southern California but

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looking at the loosening up of things

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and a reopening of the country and and

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some of these states that are getting

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ready to do this including Texas's is

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ready to go I was picturing you know

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especially when they mentioned movie

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theaters right that that's just wide

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open right well everything is has to be

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around 20 to 25 percent of capacity so I

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don't know how they're gonna do that at

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movie theaters and and if you go to the

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movies with someone do you have to

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socially distance with the person you're

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going I don't know I don't know how

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that's all gonna be handled but it's

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it's it's not as as as quick as they're

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making it sound it's a little bit slower

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pace than that but I had an amazing

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weekend and I did notice

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there were more people out this weekend

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and Rita was off doing her thing this

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weekend too as well

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and she said where she was driving

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around that there it was just noticeable

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that there were that there were more

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people out not only driving but on the

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sidewalks and things so maybe you know

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maybe we're at that point maybe we're at

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that point

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all right so kicking off this week

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tonight live from the United Kingdom

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Gary

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Lockman is here we're discussing his new

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book the return of holy Russia how that

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book is being released we will discuss

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that tonight on the show because the

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publisher big publisher that normally

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just sends us everything sentences

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straight to coronavirus our warehouse is

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not shipping so please enjoy this PDF

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downloads that's what I anyway anyway

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the PDF is great it's a great read I

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don't have the hard copy yet so I don't

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know how you are going to get yours but

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we will discuss that tonight on the show

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maybe Gary's got some word on that

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tomorrow night right here he is back

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Greg ouch

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oh man that's right now tomorrow night I

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read it I kind of loosely booked this

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week as a conspiracy we wanted to do

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conspiracies all weekend and we're

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certainly weaving things in but tomorrow

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night Greg is going to be here to talk

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about how the media all of it it doesn't

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matter Hollywood television radio

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publishing books news news outlets the

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Internet how all of it is attempting to

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control you and your world that is

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tomorrow night

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Greg House really looking forward to

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that Wednesday night is quit Spira c4

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with Jason quit we're going to do a

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Wednesday night and that will be we one

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of the things we are going to do is

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we're gonna take your calls so get ready

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I'm gonna announce this all week get it

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ready you are going to call in with your

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favorite conspiracy and hopefully it's

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good to be one that we ever mentioned

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already on the show because you're gonna

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call in and Jason and I are going to

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rate your conspiracy one pipe two pipe

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three pipes four that's gonna be

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Wednesday night I'm really looking

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forward to that all right Jason quit

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Thursday is another Fator nights and yes

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we will be giving away four fade to

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black membership to those in need and

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who are staying at home we're gonna keep

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giving these away till we get to the

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number twenty I think that is the number

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number 20 will be doing that Thursday

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night you can follow me on twitter at j

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church radio to all of you out there

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that have stumbled into the show tonight

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first time you know we've been around

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for for quite a while but our numbers

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grow every single day and certainly we

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have seen a pretty good spike in the

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numbers over the last month but if

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you're new you're rolling into the show

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you heard about the show you are here

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you gotta get with this on twitter at j

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church radio the hashtag is f to be that

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is the sandbox that's hashtag f the

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number to be f to be that's our little

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slice of the Twitterverse the fader

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knots call that the sandbox and it's an

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incredible thing to witness every single

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night and if you come over and and start

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hanging out with this you get to get

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with the conversation and meet all the

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other fate or nots and it's a whole lot

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of fun so come over and hang out I'll

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look at Franky four fingers Frankie and

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me Frankie showing off just a thumb in

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that picture Frankie it's one of my

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favorite pictures man I remember when

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that was taken that is a fantastic pic

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thank you for posting that

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but yeah but join us right there over in

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the sandbox at a hashtag f2b any

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questions or comments during the show

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hashtag f2 b q for fade to black

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questions you can also email throughout

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the show Jimmy at Jimmy Church radio

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calm we had Ronnie McMullen on the show

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last Thursday night about your immune

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system yeah oh I didn't mention did I

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mention that everybody that yeah I did

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write that I got tested for coronavirus

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did I met Rita did I mention that on the

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show I can't ever remember did did I

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mention it uh well it came back negative

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by the way okay so keep your immune

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system in check alright so when you go

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get that corona virus test you are

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negative 2 as well Rita is typing now so

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she's gonna tell me if I mentioned it on

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the show keep your immune system in

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check just click on the get the T banner

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over at Jimmy Church radio.com head

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straight over to get the t go to the

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specials page they have an immunity pact

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right there you can get that and use the

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promo code fader fa de r and you will

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get free shipping because your fate or

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not for all orders over $50 and have you

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visited Billy cartons new internet TV

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network that has been built for this

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community you need to check it out it's

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called forbidden knowledge dot tv.com

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dot TV click on the banners over to

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maturity that icon you will get a three

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day trial membership you can go and

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check out all of his amazing content

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that he has put up there just for you it

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is absolutely amazing come check it out

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now forbidden knowledge dot TV and we

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announced this every night for the last

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two weeks our new fade to black blend is

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out and you can get yours now it is

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called game changer that's right I got

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to make me a game changer commercial

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game changer yeah yeah I got to do that

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just go to River Moon coffee dot-com you

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can also

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go to their Amazon store two different

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promo codes promo code over at the

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Amazon store is Jimmy our MC for River

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moon coffee all caps and then the promo

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code over on their website is f to be

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blend alright alright let's get to the

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breaking news it's all over everywhere

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today because the Pentagon earlier they

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released unclassified footage showing

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unidentified aerial phenomena captured

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by Navy aircraft that had circulated in

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the public domain for years nobody cared

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well anyway I'm talking about it the

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Pentagon nobody did anything that would

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carry the one video was filmed in

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November 2004 was been on the internet

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since 2007 and the other two were

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captured in January of 2015

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today Pentagon spokesman sue Gao said

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and I am quoting after thorough review a

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department the department has determined

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that the authorized release of these

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unclassified videos does not reveal any

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sensitive capabilities or systems and

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does not impinge on any subsequent

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investigations of military airspace

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incursions by unidentified aerial

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phenomena end quote

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so there you have it that's it the

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Pentagon doesn't care they don't think

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that there's anything sensitive there

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isn't any propulsion system and he's

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sensitive capabilities it doesn't reveal

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anything they don't care it's it's just

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released and it's out there that's it

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and now no matter what people are gonna

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see what they're gonna see they can wait

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you know that's fine that's fine it

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takes me back to something like the

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Patterson video the Patterson film

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Bigfoot you know people are going to see

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what they

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are going to see and I don't know if the

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Paterson Bigfoot video was real

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I don't know these things right looking

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at it i people are going to see what

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they're gonna see same thing with these

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three videos here people are going to

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see what they are going to see for the

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Pentagon to go this far

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that's a that's pretty intense and then

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we're gonna have the argument I'm gonna

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make this last comment are you now

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believing the Pentagon are you know

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church church or you know seeing that

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you trust the pen look either for

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everybody out there and especially those

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that are going to make that statement

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you dug it when the Pentagon said you ap

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you dug that are you all in when the

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00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:32,110
Pentagon said that but then when the

275
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:33,850
Pentagon says how we're releasing this

276
00:15:37,489 --> 00:15:35,290
because there's nothing here there's

277
00:15:40,739 --> 00:15:37,499
nothing sensitive it's it's no biggie

278
00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:40,749
you can't have it both ways so it is

279
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:43,870
what it is either you believe in the

280
00:15:48,809 --> 00:15:46,930
videos or you don't that's it it's

281
00:15:51,420 --> 00:15:48,819
really about this time to move on

282
00:15:54,319 --> 00:15:51,430
I did notice nah I'm not gonna say it

283
00:15:56,939 --> 00:15:54,329
I'm not gonna mention Tom DeLong's tweet

284
00:15:59,639 --> 00:15:56,949
I'll save that for another night all

285
00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:59,649
right also today President Donald Trump

286
00:16:04,199 --> 00:16:02,079
well this press release came out today

287
00:16:06,689 --> 00:16:04,209
it happened on Friday may be a fan of

288
00:16:10,829 --> 00:16:06,699
spaceflights of course you know and he

289
00:16:13,379 --> 00:16:10,839
started his own space force and he's

290
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:13,389
sending astronauts to the moon and by

291
00:16:20,910 --> 00:16:18,370
the way next month may 27th right here

292
00:16:25,199 --> 00:16:20,920
in the good ole United States of America

293
00:16:29,790 --> 00:16:25,209
we are launching astronauts from the

294
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:29,800
United States on our own rocket to the

295
00:16:39,569 --> 00:16:37,839
International Space Station right Oh bad

296
00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:39,579
that hasn't happened in a long time

297
00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:43,870
alright so you know I know that Donald

298
00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:46,750
Trump loves his space force so there you

299
00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:48,550
go and during the conversation with NASA

300
00:16:54,270 --> 00:16:50,710
Chief Jim Bryden Stein

301
00:16:56,460 --> 00:16:54,280
on Friday April 24th last week the

302
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:56,470
president whose administration has

303
00:17:01,920 --> 00:16:58,210
directed NASA the land astronauts on the

304
00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:01,930
moon by 2024 expressed a distinct lack

305
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:05,200
of interest in flying on board Virgin

306
00:17:12,270 --> 00:17:10,330
Galactic's spaceship to his answer to

307
00:17:14,570 --> 00:17:12,280
the question when asked if he would fly

308
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:14,580
on spaceship to his answer

309
00:17:24,510 --> 00:17:22,720
I'll pass pass I'll pass the Starworks

310
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:24,520
UFO and artificial intelligence

311
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:27,910
conference in Laughlin Nevada November

312
00:17:31,470 --> 00:17:29,650
5th through the 8th is still going on

313
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:31,480
it's going to be bigger and better than

314
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:33,310
ever before with Grant Cameron Paul

315
00:17:38,430 --> 00:17:35,440
Heine james fox alan stivell mints it

316
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:38,440
said goldberg i'm gonna be there reid is

317
00:17:41,790 --> 00:17:40,030
gonna be there fade to black Cruz is

318
00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:41,800
gonna be there just go to Starworks

319
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:46,150
usa.com for tickets and info the banners

320
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:47,770
and links are over to me Church

321
00:17:56,130 --> 00:17:51,730
radio.com and at this point here we are

322
00:18:00,960 --> 00:17:56,140
we're going into May now which I am soon

323
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:00,970
going to be saying next month June 20th

324
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:04,090
Saturday June 20th the disclosure fest

325
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:06,490
event at the historic Los Angeles Park

326
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:07,840
in downtown Los Angeles

327
00:18:11,970 --> 00:18:10,570
is still on this is according to the

328
00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:11,980
state of California in the city of Los

329
00:18:19,740 --> 00:18:15,270
Angeles for now the event can happen

330
00:18:22,350 --> 00:18:19,750
please visit disclosure fest dot org for

331
00:18:25,140 --> 00:18:22,360
all updated info we do have a back up

332
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:25,150
date for August that is ready to go if

333
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:27,790
we have to move it and if we do we'll

334
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:29,710
announce it here we will also announce

335
00:18:34,650 --> 00:18:32,650
it at disclosure fest dot or immediately

336
00:18:39,890 --> 00:18:34,660
let's get this show crackin happy

337
00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:39,900
birthday to today Ace Frehley

338
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:43,780
og8 urinal if you're ace frehley you're

339
00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:48,720
you're an original gangsta today ace is

340
00:18:57,300 --> 00:18:52,750
69 years old I always wanted a three

341
00:19:02,070 --> 00:18:57,310
pickup cherry sunburst loves Paul custom

342
00:19:03,260 --> 00:19:02,080
and Man Man Man with the three cream

343
00:19:06,410 --> 00:19:03,270
pickups

344
00:19:11,030 --> 00:19:06,420
that the covers off remember we had the

345
00:19:15,580 --> 00:19:11,040
smoke coming out man Ace Frehley 69

346
00:19:18,110 --> 00:19:15,590
years old bad fingers Pete ham today is

347
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:18,120
73 do you remember the rumors going

348
00:19:24,190 --> 00:19:19,440
around I don't know if you heard this

349
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:24,200
that bad finger was actually the Beatles

350
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:26,910
recording under another name do you guys

351
00:19:33,050 --> 00:19:28,290
remember that in secret

352
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:33,060
I remember hearing that today the b-52s

353
00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:36,320
Kate Pierson hang on to your hat

354
00:19:45,370 --> 00:19:42,150
is 72 years old incredible on this day

355
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:45,380
in history oh TD okay listen to this on

356
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:54,810
this day in 4970 seven BC on this day

357
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:01,200
April 27th 49 77 BC the universe is

358
00:20:08,540 --> 00:20:05,760
created and that is according to German

359
00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:08,550
mathematician and astronomer Johannes

360
00:20:12,380 --> 00:20:10,860
Kepler that's right

361
00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:12,390
I think that's where those rumors

362
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:15,060
started all right his calculations were

363
00:20:22,580 --> 00:20:18,080
a little off though by about 13.7

364
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:22,590
billion years fader fact yeah I love

365
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:25,050
living this stuff out here we go

366
00:20:40,130 --> 00:20:38,390
160 he has a master's degree in chemical

367
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:40,140
engineering from the University of

368
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:42,510
Sydney and the Royal Institute of

369
00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:46,620
Technology alongside a Fulbright

370
00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:53,430
scholarship to MIT and that is your

371
00:21:02,980 --> 00:20:56,310
fader fact that's a good one yeah there

372
00:21:05,090 --> 00:21:02,990
he is the smoke and loves Paul oh man

373
00:21:07,460 --> 00:21:05,100
that's what I'm talking about

374
00:21:10,220 --> 00:21:07,470
ace really all right tonight very

375
00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:10,230
special guest Gary Lachlan joins us from

376
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:12,390
the United Kingdom we're discussing his

377
00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:15,210
new book the return of holy Russia

378
00:21:20,180 --> 00:21:17,190
tomorrow night Greg house is here

379
00:21:22,669 --> 00:21:20,190
Wednesday night could Spira c4 with

380
00:21:25,789 --> 00:21:22,679
Jason quit Thursday night is another

381
00:21:28,219 --> 00:21:25,799
fader night yeah open lines all my long

382
00:21:30,889 --> 00:21:28,229
and we will be giving away for fade to

383
00:21:33,139 --> 00:21:30,899
black memberships right here okay let me

384
00:21:44,719 --> 00:21:33,149
hit this River moon coffee promo code F

385
00:21:49,099 --> 00:21:44,729
to be blend this is the deal if there is

386
00:21:51,739 --> 00:21:49,109
one thing one thing I've talked about a

387
00:21:56,239 --> 00:21:51,749
couple but if there is one thing that

388
00:22:03,349 --> 00:21:56,249
has risen out of this coronavirus crisis

389
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:03,359
it is the conspiracy theorists that's

390
00:22:10,460 --> 00:22:07,049
right we have truly entered the perfect

391
00:22:12,469 --> 00:22:10,470
storm although some conspiracy theories

392
00:22:15,139 --> 00:22:12,479
have entered into the mainstream they

393
00:22:17,330 --> 00:22:15,149
never took hold because most theories

394
00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:17,340
don't have the for the lack of a better

395
00:22:22,129 --> 00:22:19,220
word proof

396
00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:22,139
most black evidence you know the real

397
00:22:29,419 --> 00:22:25,590
smoke and gun factual end of discussion

398
00:22:32,089 --> 00:22:29,429
evidence it's the way that it is all

399
00:22:36,169 --> 00:22:32,099
right few conspiracies have been proven

400
00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:36,179
to be very real but it's the conspiracy

401
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:39,929
theorists today that is in the sun

402
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,710
shining but today if you think about it

403
00:22:49,849 --> 00:22:45,840
all of the conspiracy theorists out

404
00:22:53,450 --> 00:22:49,859
there who want to present the New World

405
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:53,460
Order right the end of times the global

406
00:22:59,479 --> 00:22:56,570
elite take over the Illuminati endgame

407
00:23:02,210 --> 00:22:59,489
population control the Rothschild

408
00:23:04,999 --> 00:23:02,220
banking economic world leader Bilderberg

409
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:05,009
Eyes Wide Shut vaccine bio warfare FEMA

410
00:23:12,589 --> 00:23:08,129
martial law take over the world they

411
00:23:18,769 --> 00:23:12,599
have to look no further than to present

412
00:23:23,739 --> 00:23:18,779
to you their proof coronavirus that's

413
00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:23,749
right and you have to say and why not

414
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:28,440
why not this worldwide economic shutdown

415
00:23:33,549 --> 00:23:30,890
and pandemic is a gift

416
00:23:37,780 --> 00:23:33,559
to every conspiracy theorist on the

417
00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:37,790
planet now the media has played directly

418
00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:40,990
into their hands that's right

419
00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:45,620
because nobody understands why there has

420
00:23:55,930 --> 00:23:49,870
been a virtual and total shutdown of

421
00:23:59,080 --> 00:23:55,940
everything all at once the mass media

422
00:24:00,669 --> 00:23:59,090
has had daily headlines over the last

423
00:24:05,470 --> 00:24:00,679
couple of months that have included

424
00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:05,480
stories on a bioweapons lab country of

425
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:08,950
choice China or the United States

426
00:24:17,470 --> 00:24:14,690
vaccines that do and do not exist the

427
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:17,480
collapse of oil markets for whatever

428
00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:21,890
reason cover-ups on every level every

429
00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:24,470
country we've got stories coming out of

430
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:25,340
North Korea

431
00:24:32,909 --> 00:24:28,610
why was Iran hit China the us-russia

432
00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:32,919
data that has been twisted or outright

433
00:24:42,159 --> 00:24:37,220
fabricated celebrities infected world

434
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:42,169
leaders getting it or not country spared

435
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:45,590
and others targeted companies that have

436
00:24:53,919 --> 00:24:50,570
patented Corona all right if I see one

437
00:24:56,590 --> 00:24:53,929
more corona virus vaccine bottle it's

438
00:24:58,780 --> 00:24:56,600
just like the list goes on and on and on

439
00:25:02,890 --> 00:24:58,790
and on I don't have the time to present

440
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:02,900
it all here but the two winners in all

441
00:25:15,850 --> 00:25:09,490
of this Amazon conspiracy theorists

442
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:15,860
that's right in the end it'll be

443
00:25:22,780 --> 00:25:18,710
conspiracy theorists who will be able to

444
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:22,790
say I told you so I've been talking

445
00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:25,370
about this for years you wouldn't listen

446
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:36,909
you will not be able to argue with any

447
00:25:44,690 --> 00:25:41,330
of them you won't and in fact you're

448
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:44,700
probably going to be in agreement

449
00:25:53,420 --> 00:25:50,850
and that's the truth now when we look at

450
00:25:59,030 --> 00:25:53,430
when we look at all of this when we look

451
00:26:02,380 --> 00:25:59,040
at when we look at it all to have every

452
00:26:05,630 --> 00:26:02,390
conspiracy theorist whatever his or her

453
00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:05,640
hurts conspiracy is doesn't matter I

454
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:07,620
could make one up off of the top of my

455
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:08,730
head right now

456
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:11,850
just make it up rattle it out and then

457
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:16,850
somebody go why well coronavirus oh yeah

458
00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:20,640
because you can tie in coronavirus from

459
00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:22,260
so many different ways from a health

460
00:26:26,750 --> 00:26:24,990
standpoint from a population control

461
00:26:29,740 --> 00:26:26,760
standpoint from an economic shutdown

462
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:29,750
standpoint enemies of the state

463
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:34,410
standpoint and and so many more banking

464
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:39,240
think about this the debt oh man

465
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:41,640
printing trillions of dollars right now

466
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,770
today like it's nothing spitting it off

467
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:46,080
for the printing presses that's right

468
00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:48,570
that's what we are doing all of it part

469
00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:51,720
of the conspiracy it's it's absolutely

470
00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:53,520
incredible you have that and then you

471
00:27:00,190 --> 00:26:56,760
have the other side which is this those

472
00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:00,200
people out there that may not be as

473
00:27:07,910 --> 00:27:05,220
stable as others right that always are

474
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:07,920
looking for something to freak out on

475
00:27:12,890 --> 00:27:11,310
and maybe they're looking at conspiracy

476
00:27:16,130 --> 00:27:12,900
theories but then they get upset over

477
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:16,140
anything anyway right but when you give

478
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:20,720
them verification of crazy like

479
00:27:26,570 --> 00:27:23,520
coronavirus and tied into especially

480
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:26,580
into a conspiracy theory that's the

481
00:27:33,050 --> 00:27:28,080
tipping point for a lot of people that

482
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:33,060
don't need to be tipped think about that

483
00:27:39,740 --> 00:27:36,930
and it really really really bothers me

484
00:27:42,650 --> 00:27:39,750
the conspiracy theorists here that feed

485
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:42,660
into those people out there that are

486
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:45,090
just stumbling around looking for

487
00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:48,090
answers to questions and then they read

488
00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:49,830
something that they don't need to read

489
00:27:55,250 --> 00:27:52,350
and it's tied into coronavirus and then

490
00:27:57,670 --> 00:27:55,260
i all bets are off and those are the

491
00:28:00,430 --> 00:27:57,680
real victims and we need to be careful

492
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:00,440
about all of that this is fade to black

493
00:28:05,620 --> 00:28:03,440
I am your host Jimmy Church take my

494
00:28:08,590 --> 00:28:05,630
words listen to me all right

495
00:28:12,010 --> 00:28:08,600
we are going to find out in a couple of

496
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:12,020
months the realtor hopefully hopefully

497
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:13,760
we're gonna find out the bottom line

498
00:28:18,490 --> 00:28:16,730
with everything the economy is gonna get

499
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:18,500
back on track main take longer than what

500
00:28:21,820 --> 00:28:20,210
we think but we don't have to rebuild

501
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,830
the world we don't have to rebuild the

502
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:23,120
planet we don't have to do all of that

503
00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:26,480
it's all money it's all economy that

504
00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:29,150
doesn't that doesn't help people that

505
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:30,440
are that are hurting right now

506
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:32,570
financially because of this and I

507
00:28:39,010 --> 00:28:35,360
understand that all right and we're

508
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:39,020
feeling it too so we're gonna find out

509
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:42,530
those answers but right now we don't

510
00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:45,890
need to create conspiracies where there

511
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:47,990
are none because we don't have any facts

512
00:28:52,750 --> 00:28:50,240
there's too much going on out there

513
00:28:54,790 --> 00:28:52,760
right now it's fade to black I am your

514
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:54,800
host Jimmy church tonight live from the

515
00:29:00,460 --> 00:28:58,130
UK Gary Lachman is here we are devoting

516
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:00,470
to discuss his new book it is called the

517
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:03,200
return of holy Russia it's a great book

518
00:29:08,890 --> 00:29:05,360
- all right tomorrow night Gregg Housh

519
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:08,900
is here Wednesday night quits Piercy for

520
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:11,840
with Jason quit Thursday night is

521
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:13,520
another fader night with open lines all

522
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:14,810
night long stay with me I'll be right

523
00:29:49,890 --> 00:29:18,080
back with Gary Lachman live from the

524
00:29:54,570 --> 00:29:52,380
this is Nicole Church daughter of

525
00:29:56,970 --> 00:29:54,580
you-know-who and you're listening to

526
00:30:01,650 --> 00:29:56,980
fade to black on Jimmy Church radio.com

527
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:01,660
and the game-changer Network you're

528
00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:21,660
are a radio when you take the beams from

529
00:30:26,490 --> 00:30:23,950
Central America with dashes of

530
00:30:28,890 --> 00:30:26,500
Indonesian and African mixed in and then

531
00:30:29,549 --> 00:30:28,900
roast it to the dark side of fade to

532
00:30:32,810 --> 00:30:29,559
black

533
00:30:35,790 --> 00:30:32,820
you create the ultimate brew of Fringe

534
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:35,800
introducing the fade to black blend from

535
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:39,010
River moon coffee yes River moons

536
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:42,130
darkest customized roast was created for

537
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:44,290
the love of fade to black

538
00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:47,290
the alchemy of masterful roasting and

539
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:49,960
smoking the beans is in every sip of

540
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:53,530
this full-bodied dark Java I need my

541
00:30:58,830 --> 00:30:56,530
coffee dog deep with distinct

542
00:31:01,560 --> 00:30:58,840
bittersweet chocolate highlights just

543
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:01,570
like the bunker leaning further into the

544
00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:04,000
darkness of the roast is fade to black

545
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:07,270
blend from River moon coffee just click

546
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554
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:32,530
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555
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557
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558
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560
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562
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563
00:31:54,450 --> 00:31:52,870
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564
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:54,460
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565
00:31:59,040 --> 00:31:56,650
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566
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:59,050
log on to get the tea calm and purchase

567
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:01,120
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568
00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:02,770
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569
00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:03,670
looking for some

570
00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:05,980
body suggestions go to youtube and punch

571
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:07,750
in the search bar health matters now

572
00:32:14,970 --> 00:32:10,930
that's health matters now put power into

573
00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:14,980
your health now so get the t.com that's

574
00:32:19,530 --> 00:32:16,990
get the tea calm for super strength tea

575
00:32:21,450 --> 00:32:19,540
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576
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:21,460
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577
00:32:27,810 --> 00:32:24,610
suggestions get the t.com the tea that

578
00:32:30,140 --> 00:32:27,820
makes you go nine out of ten geneticists

579
00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:30,150
agreed

580
00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:32,340
fade to black

581
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:37,750
is not your father's radio show on the

582
00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:42,130
game changer radio network and k gra the

583
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:46,390
planet hi this is rob reiner from ample

584
00:33:12,090 --> 00:32:48,250
and you're listening to jimmy church

585
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:14,160
all right welcome back fade to black I'm

586
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:15,610
your Shiva Church you can follow me on

587
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:17,980
twitter at a church radio we've got

588
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:20,650
Gary's links for Twitter at Gary

589
00:33:27,330 --> 00:33:25,420
Lockman Blackmon and you know Gary I'm

590
00:33:30,540 --> 00:33:27,340
gonna I'm gonna cut this intro short

591
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:30,550
black men or Lachman I say Lachman but

592
00:33:36,210 --> 00:33:33,600
apparently I've been mispronouncing

593
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:36,220
since I've lived here in the UK they all

594
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:37,690
say laugh win no matter how many times

595
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:40,090
yeah I've heard it both ways let me get

596
00:33:46,260 --> 00:33:42,070
to your intro because I just didn't want

597
00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:46,270
to blow it Gary was a founding member of

598
00:33:51,690 --> 00:33:49,900
the pop group blondie in 2006 he was

599
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:51,700
inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of

600
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:53,890
Fame with tonight we are going to be

601
00:33:59,250 --> 00:33:55,810
discussing his new book the return of

602
00:34:02,300 --> 00:33:59,260
holy Russia apocalyptic history mystical

603
00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:02,310
awakening and the struggle for the the

604
00:34:08,910 --> 00:34:06,190
soul of the world today he is the author

605
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:08,920
of 21 books on topics ranging from the

606
00:34:13,140 --> 00:34:10,720
evolution of consciousness to literal

607
00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:13,150
literary suicides I'm tongue-twisted all

608
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:15,340
of a sudden popular culture and the

609
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:16,510
history of the occult

610
00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:18,730
he has written a rock and roll memoir of

611
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:22,150
the 1970s biographies on Crowley Rudolf

612
00:34:28,410 --> 00:34:25,570
Steiner young Blavatsky and Colin Wilson

613
00:34:31,590 --> 00:34:28,420
histories of hermeticism and Western

614
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:31,600
inner tradition studies in extensionism

615
00:34:37,830 --> 00:34:34,810
and the philosophy of consciousness and

616
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:37,840
about the influence of esotericism on

617
00:34:42,570 --> 00:34:40,090
politics and society he also writes

618
00:34:45,180 --> 00:34:42,580
around the United States in the United

619
00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:45,190
Kingdom in Europe including 14 times

620
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:48,280
quest strange attractor Fenris wolf and

621
00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:50,260
his work has appeared in The Times

622
00:34:55,350 --> 00:34:52,600
Literary Supplement Times Educational

623
00:34:59,040 --> 00:34:55,360
Supplement the Guardian independent on

624
00:35:01,380 --> 00:34:59,050
Sunday Sunday Times mojo and gnosis and

625
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:01,390
other publications his website is Gary

626
00:35:06,990 --> 00:35:04,240
Lockman dodd co uk the links are Jimmy

627
00:35:09,570 --> 00:35:07,000
Church radio.com Gary welcome to fade to

628
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:09,580
black there you go oh well thank you

629
00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:10,720
very much for having me on

630
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:14,220
yeah and this is this is okay first off

631
00:35:18,180 --> 00:35:16,450
we're gonna do the first-time guests

632
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:18,190
disclaimer the next time you're on the

633
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,650
show we won't do it but this is the

634
00:35:24,570 --> 00:35:22,480
first time to guess disclaimer which is

635
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:24,580
Gary it's just you and I sitting on my

636
00:35:27,319 --> 00:35:25,170
couch have

637
00:35:29,059 --> 00:35:27,329
conversation as friends and where that

638
00:35:31,370 --> 00:35:29,069
conversation starts it starts where it

639
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:31,380
ends it ends but we are going to end as

640
00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:32,730
friends there you go

641
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:35,400
you ready sounds good to me now here

642
00:35:43,220 --> 00:35:38,210
here's the deal

643
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:43,230
how does a musician do what you and I

644
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:47,040
have done how what what what happened

645
00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:50,640
where you go you have a career in music

646
00:35:56,089 --> 00:35:53,910
and then you find these these

647
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:56,099
interesting subjects that the rest of

648
00:36:01,010 --> 00:35:57,450
the world may or may not know anything

649
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:01,020
about but you dive into it what is it

650
00:36:07,789 --> 00:36:03,839
about musicians and these subjects that

651
00:36:09,650 --> 00:36:07,799
interest us well I think I think in some

652
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:09,660
way I mean the sort of thing I've wound

653
00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:12,930
up doing I got into it when I was first

654
00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:15,150
playing in music this is quite some time

655
00:36:21,140 --> 00:36:18,180
ago this is back in 1975 and I was

656
00:36:22,940 --> 00:36:21,150
living on the Bowery in New York and

657
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:22,950
this was back when the Bowery was the

658
00:36:27,319 --> 00:36:24,510
Bowery it was the Skid Row if you go

659
00:36:29,980 --> 00:36:27,329
there today it's unrecognizable but yeah

660
00:36:33,289 --> 00:36:29,990
I was living there with Debbie Harry and

661
00:36:36,859 --> 00:36:33,299
Christine from blondie the singer and

662
00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:36,869
guitarist and in this sort of run-down

663
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:39,990
the legal loft space we were we were

664
00:36:43,549 --> 00:36:42,089
renting somebody else in the building or

665
00:36:47,630 --> 00:36:43,559
the guy who was renting us the floor off

666
00:36:50,510 --> 00:36:47,640
floor he was this wild flamboyant artist

667
00:36:53,359 --> 00:36:50,520
and he was very much into Aleister

668
00:36:55,789 --> 00:36:53,369
Crowley's tarot deck the Thoth tarot

669
00:36:57,770 --> 00:36:55,799
deck which was still fairly rare at the

670
00:37:00,740 --> 00:36:57,780
time and he used to do these impromptu

671
00:37:04,130 --> 00:37:00,750
readings and he did these paintings big

672
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:04,140
canvases based on the Tarot Trump's and

673
00:37:07,940 --> 00:37:05,490
Chris and Debbie they had kind of a

674
00:37:09,799 --> 00:37:07,950
kitschy interest in this sort of thing

675
00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:09,809
you know there was some voodoo dolls and

676
00:37:15,950 --> 00:37:13,740
upside-down pentagrams and crosses in

677
00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:15,960
the loft space and you know strange

678
00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:16,619
stuff like that

679
00:37:20,180 --> 00:37:18,270
and I didn't really have any interest in

680
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:20,190
that in a serious way I mean I grew up

681
00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:22,170
reading HP Lovecraft didn't all this

682
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:23,910
weird horror fiction and loving all the

683
00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:26,250
horror films from the 30s and 40s and so

684
00:37:32,930 --> 00:37:29,460
on but one of the things that did it for

685
00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:32,940
me was he came across a book by a

686
00:37:36,289 --> 00:37:34,680
British writer you mentioned him in the

687
00:37:38,660 --> 00:37:36,299
list of biographies I've done Colin

688
00:37:41,180 --> 00:37:38,670
Wilson and he did

689
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:41,190
book came out 1971 I think just called

690
00:37:47,090 --> 00:37:44,690
the occult and it's this huge tome and

691
00:37:48,830 --> 00:37:47,100
what did it for me was that it's not

692
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:48,840
it's not just a book about haunted

693
00:37:53,020 --> 00:37:50,880
houses and ghosts and spells and things

694
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:53,030
like that he was looking at the occult

695
00:37:57,500 --> 00:37:55,140
through the lens of a philosophy of

696
00:37:58,970 --> 00:37:57,510
consciousness and he had written books

697
00:38:00,770 --> 00:37:58,980
about philosophy before them but I

698
00:38:02,510 --> 00:38:00,780
wasn't aware of them and I just started

699
00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:02,520
reading this and it just I mean it's one

700
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:04,020
of those life-changing books it just

701
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:05,970
basically really changed my life and I

702
00:38:10,940 --> 00:38:08,640
continue to music for the few more years

703
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:10,950
but during all that time when I was I

704
00:38:16,460 --> 00:38:14,160
mean I guess I dropped out in 1981 I

705
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:16,470
mean the last person I played with Iggy

706
00:38:21,980 --> 00:38:19,290
Pop I did to two North American tours

707
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:21,990
playing guitar with Iggy and yeah at the

708
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:23,970
end of 81 I just dropped out of music

709
00:38:28,580 --> 00:38:26,610
but from discovering that book in 75

710
00:38:30,020 --> 00:38:28,590
until then I just was reading and

711
00:38:32,210 --> 00:38:30,030
reading and reading and reading and

712
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:32,220
reading everything and it just that took

713
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:35,220
over at that point it was you just

714
00:38:42,730 --> 00:38:37,890
mentioned Iggy last week was his

715
00:38:45,740 --> 00:38:42,740
birthday and he turned 73 yeah right

716
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:45,750
what does that do to your head I had to

717
00:38:53,810 --> 00:38:50,730
stop and pause I really did 73 well for

718
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:53,820
a while he was doing these insurance

719
00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:55,920
adverts here these are Insurance

720
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:58,410
commercials here and it was sort of

721
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:00,420
thing like well if we'd insured him we

722
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:04,560
didn't sure anybody know is one of the

723
00:39:09,140 --> 00:39:06,090
incredible survivors I mean what can you

724
00:39:12,220 --> 00:39:09,150
say yeah absolutely 73 years old you

725
00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:12,230
know I don't know where the time is gone

726
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:19,110
I'm 56 and a survivor of the 80s in the

727
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:21,930
Sunset Strip and and it doesn't seem

728
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:26,130
like that long ago but it was you know

729
00:39:32,540 --> 00:39:29,370
35 almost 40 years ago now and the same

730
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:32,550
thing for you 1975 and you start to

731
00:39:36,980 --> 00:39:33,930
think about this you know that's for

732
00:39:40,610 --> 00:39:36,990
four and a half decades ago and they'll

733
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:40,620
write this makes you and I who we used

734
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:43,680
to rebel against when we were kids we

735
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:47,010
are now those people yeah well let's

736
00:39:51,020 --> 00:39:48,480
just hope the people listening can't do

737
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:51,030
the math that's the way we gotta look at

738
00:39:54,370 --> 00:39:52,490
it and I do

739
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:54,380
one of these days let's do a show will

740
00:40:00,990 --> 00:39:56,510
we'll talk some music it'll be a lot of

741
00:40:04,210 --> 00:40:01,000
fun but yeah I've often found that the

742
00:40:06,490 --> 00:40:04,220
the creative circles out there and not

743
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:06,500
necessarily you know try to get this

744
00:40:12,130 --> 00:40:08,570
information out of the intellectuals and

745
00:40:16,780 --> 00:40:12,140
certainly the math and the sciences but

746
00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:16,790
the the creative circles have always had

747
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:19,670
an open mind to this and have chosen to

748
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:21,440
go and research because I feel that they

749
00:40:27,250 --> 00:40:24,170
know that the world isn't as what it

750
00:40:32,410 --> 00:40:27,260
seems and when you look back and you go

751
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:32,420
into Russia certainly pre 1917 most

752
00:40:39,490 --> 00:40:34,450
people don't know about that history and

753
00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:39,500
it has effectively for certainly been

754
00:40:45,820 --> 00:40:42,200
suppressed and nearly erased for the

755
00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:45,830
last 50 60 70 years hasn't it yeah

756
00:40:50,140 --> 00:40:46,460
that's true

757
00:40:53,380 --> 00:40:50,150
I mean it's a remarkable period just

758
00:40:55,930 --> 00:40:53,390
before the the Bolsheviks took over it's

759
00:40:58,570 --> 00:40:55,940
a period known as the Silver Age in

760
00:41:00,520 --> 00:40:58,580
Russian history and they it's sort of I

761
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:00,530
guess from about eighteen late 1880s

762
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:03,890
1890s until as you say just before the

763
00:41:07,870 --> 00:41:05,290
Revolution and it was a remarkable

764
00:41:12,210 --> 00:41:07,880
flowering of culture of art and

765
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:12,220
literature and music but also an intense

766
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,810
preoccupation and interest in things

767
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:16,880
like the occult and mysticism and magic

768
00:41:23,770 --> 00:41:19,970
and spirituality and kind of intense

769
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:23,780
religiosity and I had known about this

770
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:25,490
period I mean I'm the you know

771
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:28,880
gluttonous writers a reader so I've you

772
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,290
know read a lot and I was very

773
00:41:35,970 --> 00:41:32,480
interested in dusty upski and people

774
00:41:41,050 --> 00:41:35,980
like that from from other interests and

775
00:41:42,970 --> 00:41:41,060
what got me into doing the book was that

776
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:42,980
well I'd written quite a bit about

777
00:41:46,660 --> 00:41:44,510
Russia in the previous book who's a book

778
00:41:49,810 --> 00:41:46,670
called Dark Star rising magic and power

779
00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:49,820
in the age of Trump which is it's not

780
00:41:54,430 --> 00:41:51,609
the book so much about Trump per se

781
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:54,440
specifically as this kind of occult

782
00:42:00,099 --> 00:41:56,930
politics that seems to have risen up

783
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:00,109
around him and maybe we can get on to

784
00:42:04,090 --> 00:42:02,240
that down the line but I'd written in

785
00:42:05,319 --> 00:42:04,100
that book quite a bit about things going

786
00:42:07,779 --> 00:42:05,329
on in Russia and then

787
00:42:11,499 --> 00:42:07,789
look that this one is kind of a follow

788
00:42:15,699 --> 00:42:11,509
up to it and the real sort of trigger

789
00:42:18,359 --> 00:42:15,709
was that I in research for the the

790
00:42:22,890 --> 00:42:18,369
earlier book I come across references to

791
00:42:28,449 --> 00:42:22,900
Putin and I think it was like 2014 or so

792
00:42:29,979 --> 00:42:28,459
when at a meeting of Russia United which

793
00:42:33,519 --> 00:42:29,989
is the sort of the you know the big

794
00:42:36,549 --> 00:42:33,529
political party that that he's you know

795
00:42:38,049 --> 00:42:36,559
that's his party and he he had he had a

796
00:42:40,479 --> 00:42:38,059
reading list that he was giving to his

797
00:42:43,329 --> 00:42:40,489
regional governors and on the list were

798
00:42:45,130 --> 00:42:43,339
some philosophers from this period from

799
00:42:47,019 --> 00:42:45,140
this Silver Age and they were people

800
00:42:49,390 --> 00:42:47,029
that whose work I was aware of not all

801
00:42:50,739 --> 00:42:49,400
of them but but but some of them and I

802
00:42:51,759 --> 00:42:50,749
thought what I was interesting you know

803
00:42:54,489 --> 00:42:51,769
you don't have too many world leaders

804
00:42:58,420 --> 00:42:54,499
giving you know their their regional

805
00:43:00,900 --> 00:42:58,430
governors philosophers to read about but

806
00:43:03,219 --> 00:43:00,910
then I saw the reaction from the West

807
00:43:06,729 --> 00:43:03,229
the David Brooks in the New York Times

808
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:06,739
and some other Western pundits and they

809
00:43:12,670 --> 00:43:10,910
were basically attacking Putin and these

810
00:43:15,339 --> 00:43:12,680
people from this period the Silver Age

811
00:43:18,430 --> 00:43:15,349
saying oh this is a example of Russian

812
00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:18,440
exceptionalism and the reason they say

813
00:43:24,699 --> 00:43:22,609
this is that there was this whole notion

814
00:43:26,859 --> 00:43:24,709
that somehow at this time it says just

815
00:43:28,269 --> 00:43:26,869
before the Bolsheviks that that what was

816
00:43:30,370 --> 00:43:28,279
happening in Russia was a kind of

817
00:43:33,009 --> 00:43:30,380
cultural Renaissance and a religious and

818
00:43:35,289 --> 00:43:33,019
spiritual one that would be able to sort

819
00:43:38,019 --> 00:43:35,299
of balance out the increasing

820
00:43:40,059 --> 00:43:38,029
materialism and so sort of scientific

821
00:43:41,499 --> 00:43:40,069
reductionism that had taken over the

822
00:43:44,259 --> 00:43:41,509
West and there was this idea that

823
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:44,269
somehow the the the flowering that was

824
00:43:47,439 --> 00:43:45,920
happening in Russia then and again this

825
00:43:49,089 --> 00:43:47,449
is before the Bolsheviks would be able

826
00:43:51,039 --> 00:43:49,099
to bring sort of East and West together

827
00:43:52,779 --> 00:43:51,049
and create a kind of you know new

828
00:43:54,670 --> 00:43:52,789
culture and they were you know quite a

829
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:54,680
few philosophers and and sort of

830
00:43:58,569 --> 00:43:56,930
spiritual visionaries at that time who

831
00:44:00,579 --> 00:43:58,579
saw something like that Rudolf Steiner

832
00:44:03,219 --> 00:44:00,589
was one of them but then this all gets

833
00:44:05,380 --> 00:44:03,229
you know completely you know sort of

834
00:44:06,670 --> 00:44:05,390
squashed and obliterated by the rise of

835
00:44:09,069 --> 00:44:06,680
the Bolsheviks so which is struck me is

836
00:44:11,439 --> 00:44:09,079
fascinating that Putin was looking back

837
00:44:14,620 --> 00:44:11,449
to this earlier time and the reason he's

838
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:14,630
doing that is that it Russia seems to

839
00:44:18,279 --> 00:44:15,650
been going through a kind of identity

840
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:18,289
crisis since the collapse of the USSR

841
00:44:23,489 --> 00:44:19,089
what

842
00:44:27,630 --> 00:44:23,499
did you like I did do you almost call BS

843
00:44:33,390 --> 00:44:27,640
on that is it Putin trying to appear to

844
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:33,400
be a literary read write philosophical I

845
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:36,249
have got a library of books and I sit

846
00:44:43,009 --> 00:44:39,130
around and drink wine by candlelight and

847
00:44:45,180 --> 00:44:43,019
I'm reading these tones you know I I

848
00:44:48,509 --> 00:44:45,190
equated two people that dropped

849
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:48,519
Nietzsche in a conversation right so

850
00:44:52,170 --> 00:44:50,079
they want to come across as an

851
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:52,180
intellectual do you think it was just

852
00:44:57,900 --> 00:44:54,249
that or do you think that the scarier

853
00:45:01,499 --> 00:44:57,910
part is that Putin may be reading this

854
00:45:05,819 --> 00:45:01,509
and looking to the Past for the future

855
00:45:08,729 --> 00:45:05,829
of Russia well I think that again I'm no

856
00:45:10,499 --> 00:45:08,739
expert in Russia I mean when you do the

857
00:45:13,469 --> 00:45:10,509
kind of books I do you kind of become

858
00:45:15,089 --> 00:45:13,479
you quickly become an expert in some

859
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:15,099
areas of you know of what you're

860
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:16,690
researching and so this is something

861
00:45:22,709 --> 00:45:19,690
that that became clear that you know

862
00:45:25,380 --> 00:45:22,719
with the collapse of the Soviet Union in

863
00:45:29,279 --> 00:45:25,390
the late 80s early 90s then you had an

864
00:45:31,229 --> 00:45:29,289
early kind of exciting period when it

865
00:45:33,059 --> 00:45:31,239
seems like it was opening up to Western

866
00:45:34,620 --> 00:45:33,069
democracy in the free market and all

867
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,630
that and then it kind of went to

868
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,640
freefall you know in the late 90s

869
00:45:40,650 --> 00:45:38,079
everything collapse you know the ruble

870
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:40,660
hit the hit the floor and all of that

871
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:45,609
and so there certainly was this need for

872
00:45:51,269 --> 00:45:48,249
a kind of new direction you know a new

873
00:45:53,219 --> 00:45:51,279
orientation and this is a question again

874
00:45:55,499 --> 00:45:53,229
as I looked into the history of Russia

875
00:45:56,729 --> 00:45:55,509
this is Russia's identity is something

876
00:45:59,339 --> 00:45:56,739
that comes up in the history of Russia

877
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,349
itself it's this kind of motor that

878
00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:01,119
drives much of the history of Russia

879
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:04,329
they search for a kind of identity I was

880
00:46:07,259 --> 00:46:05,710
gonna say it seemed like you know we're

881
00:46:09,180 --> 00:46:07,269
not Marxists anymore we're not

882
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:09,190
communists anymore but not really

883
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:11,410
Westerners because this this you know

884
00:46:15,950 --> 00:46:13,210
free market democracy doesn't seem to

885
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:15,960
stick exact so we need some kind of new

886
00:46:20,789 --> 00:46:19,119
identity and you know I'm sure Putin is

887
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:20,799
you know he's he's a tactician it's all

888
00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:23,200
very strategic but at the same time I

889
00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:25,420
think he probably does read Dostoyevsky

890
00:46:29,729 --> 00:46:27,460
probably has read these people because

891
00:46:31,890 --> 00:46:29,739
in general the impression again I get

892
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:31,900
and I'm not alone this is that kind of

893
00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:32,560
the level

894
00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:37,630
of literary awareness in Russia seem to

895
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:39,430
be higher than say the average you know

896
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:40,930
reader in the West or something like

897
00:46:46,050 --> 00:46:42,850
that so it's not unusual but you know

898
00:46:48,570 --> 00:46:46,060
again I'm sure he's not doing it for his

899
00:46:52,050 --> 00:46:48,580
own edification now let's all right

900
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:52,060
let's let's establish a footing here for

901
00:46:57,060 --> 00:46:54,640
the audience so they clearly understand

902
00:46:59,340 --> 00:46:57,070
why this book needed to be written we

903
00:47:02,550 --> 00:46:59,350
have to go into the past into the

904
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:02,560
distant past actually because Russian

905
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:06,130
culture and this is the question Russian

906
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:09,730
culture was oh I almost want to say

907
00:47:15,930 --> 00:47:14,170
dualistic they were spiritual Orthodox

908
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:15,940
Christianity some of the oldest churches

909
00:47:21,380 --> 00:47:17,920
in the world were established in Russia

910
00:47:25,050 --> 00:47:21,390
what happened later we'll discuss but

911
00:47:30,660 --> 00:47:25,060
religion was part of society but also

912
00:47:35,580 --> 00:47:30,670
running alongside that in an almost in a

913
00:47:38,250 --> 00:47:35,590
hybrid kind of way they had they had the

914
00:47:43,350 --> 00:47:38,260
esoteric side of things and it was

915
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:43,360
ghosts and it was gods and it was the

916
00:47:49,260 --> 00:47:46,810
powers of the mind this that that part

917
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:49,270
of society ran alongside and was

918
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:53,200
accepted as as Christianity was nor the

919
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:56,410
Orthodox Christian Church right yes it's

920
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:00,400
true I mean even before sort of well

921
00:48:06,540 --> 00:48:03,010
Russia Russia as we know Russia kind of

922
00:48:11,250 --> 00:48:06,550
came into existence when the it adopted

923
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:11,260
the Greek Orthodox Christianity and in

924
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:14,800
the late 10th 10th century and it had

925
00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:17,200
pagan beliefs before then and in recent

926
00:48:21,180 --> 00:48:18,990
times a lot of the pagan beliefs or

927
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:21,190
experience in a renaissance and a

928
00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:23,530
resurgence again part of this search for

929
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:26,080
an identity and yeah there's you know

930
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:27,250
fantastic

931
00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:29,050
fairy tales and sort of you know

932
00:48:35,250 --> 00:48:32,310
supernatural stories and and myths and

933
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:35,260
and tables and all of that part of the

934
00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:39,520
Russian kind of pagan tradition and they

935
00:48:44,820 --> 00:48:42,310
were able to I mean again this is

936
00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:44,830
something again that I've come up in and

937
00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:46,240
all the research I've done it

938
00:48:49,380 --> 00:48:47,920
this is that there seems to be something

939
00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:49,390
in the Russian soul in the Russian

940
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:50,680
psyche that can accommodate

941
00:48:55,620 --> 00:48:53,440
contradictory things it kind of zoom

942
00:48:58,050 --> 00:48:55,630
Alexandria in the last days of the

943
00:49:00,690 --> 00:48:58,060
Romanovs and he's always known as the

944
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:00,700
holy devil you know I guess you know in

945
00:49:03,870 --> 00:49:01,930
the states you have the Hells Angels

946
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:03,880
again is this kind of antinomian these

947
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:06,450
kind of opposites coming together and

948
00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:10,570
once Christianity took root the earlier

949
00:49:15,060 --> 00:49:12,520
pagan waves weren't completely expelled

950
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:15,070
but they the people were somehow able to

951
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:16,510
absorb the both and they have this

952
00:49:20,670 --> 00:49:18,010
notion of what they call double belief

953
00:49:22,890 --> 00:49:20,680
so you know and it wasn't sort of like

954
00:49:24,210 --> 00:49:22,900
okay we'll pretend to be Christian but

955
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:24,220
we're really paying and if somehow they

956
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:26,050
were able to blend the two things

957
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:28,690
together and one reason for that is that

958
00:49:34,380 --> 00:49:31,690
the kind of Christianity the the Greek

959
00:49:36,599 --> 00:49:34,390
or the Eastern Christianity that they

960
00:49:38,579 --> 00:49:36,609
adopted and itself had more of a

961
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:38,589
mystical kind of sense to it then than

962
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:41,410
the Western you know which what we know

963
00:49:46,650 --> 00:49:43,570
of Roman Catholicism certainly certainly

964
00:49:49,859 --> 00:49:46,660
Protestantism and they really did have

965
00:49:52,620 --> 00:49:49,869
the sense of some upcoming end of things

966
00:49:54,510 --> 00:49:52,630
you know some final climax that history

967
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:54,520
was was you know heading towards and

968
00:50:01,170 --> 00:49:56,290
this was the resurrection so well all

969
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:01,180
those kind of more esoteric mystical

970
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:02,800
kind of ideas that are part of

971
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:04,570
Christianity but in the West they don't

972
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:07,599
get as much kind of emphasis we're taken

973
00:50:14,460 --> 00:50:10,720
as sort of the the center you know in

974
00:50:18,570 --> 00:50:14,470
the East taken as the main the main

975
00:50:24,810 --> 00:50:18,580
aspect of it was that the fabric of not

976
00:50:28,620 --> 00:50:24,820
only theosophy but the the the common

977
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:28,630
man discussing things about Russia out

978
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:31,210
of pride that the East was going to rise

979
00:50:37,380 --> 00:50:35,050
up Europe's gonna fall Minh I today's

980
00:50:39,060 --> 00:50:37,390
really wasn't even as a part of the

981
00:50:43,050 --> 00:50:39,070
conversation it was always focused on

982
00:50:45,630 --> 00:50:43,060
Europe and and was that was that the

983
00:50:50,839 --> 00:50:45,640
feel of the common man you know going

984
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:50,849
into the revolution well I mean it's

985
00:50:57,060 --> 00:50:54,010
usually well the story usually is is

986
00:50:58,030 --> 00:50:57,070
that there's a kind of avant-garde or

987
00:51:01,720 --> 00:50:58,040
you know

988
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:01,730
a minority culturally creative and

989
00:51:05,620 --> 00:51:03,650
intelligentsia sort of minority and then

990
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:05,630
you have the vast masses right of the

991
00:51:11,490 --> 00:51:08,720
people the serfs and all that and well I

992
00:51:15,940 --> 00:51:11,500
mean they had it they had a very

993
00:51:18,250 --> 00:51:15,950
everyone say it not any derogatory sense

994
00:51:19,390 --> 00:51:18,260
but they had a childlike innocence in

995
00:51:21,850 --> 00:51:19,400
the sense that they just completely

996
00:51:24,750 --> 00:51:21,860
embraced the faith there wasn't the same

997
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:24,760
kind of theological disputes and

998
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:26,930
uncertainty that you had in the West I

999
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:30,110
mean when they absorbed when they

1000
00:51:36,460 --> 00:51:32,690
embraced the Greek Orthodox Christianity

1001
00:51:38,650 --> 00:51:36,470
again back late nine hundreds they took

1002
00:51:40,270 --> 00:51:38,660
it lock stock and barrel so they just

1003
00:51:41,980 --> 00:51:40,280
status said yes okay we believe this

1004
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:41,990
this is what happened you know Jesus was

1005
00:51:48,100 --> 00:51:44,510
born then and the second coming is on

1006
00:51:52,630 --> 00:51:48,110
its way and we we now well by the time

1007
00:51:55,630 --> 00:51:52,640
of let's say some few centuries after

1008
00:51:58,960 --> 00:51:55,640
that because at the time that they

1009
00:52:02,950 --> 00:51:58,970
adopted Greek Christianity the center

1010
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:02,960
that was Constantinople what's Istanbul

1011
00:52:07,180 --> 00:52:04,610
today I mean that was the second Rome

1012
00:52:10,900 --> 00:52:07,190
and after the first Rome you know Rome

1013
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:10,910
itself fell to the you know sort of

1014
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:13,130
barbarian hordes the Constantinople

1015
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:14,510
continued on it was still this

1016
00:52:20,590 --> 00:52:18,530
magnificent Roman Empire in that other

1017
00:52:23,230 --> 00:52:20,600
half of the other half of the Empire and

1018
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:23,240
it wasn't until around the 1450s that

1019
00:52:29,860 --> 00:52:25,610
Constantinople fell to the Turks but at

1020
00:52:31,810 --> 00:52:29,870
that point Russia Moscow which had risen

1021
00:52:34,330 --> 00:52:31,820
to prominence by then it had taken on

1022
00:52:36,340 --> 00:52:34,340
the mantle of becoming the third Rome so

1023
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:36,350
you had the original Rome that fell and

1024
00:52:40,750 --> 00:52:38,930
Constantinople fell and then Moscow had

1025
00:52:42,340 --> 00:52:40,760
become sort of the third Rome and this

1026
00:52:44,050 --> 00:52:42,350
is whole myth about Moscow as the third

1027
00:52:46,810 --> 00:52:44,060
Rome and it said into certain you know

1028
00:52:48,610 --> 00:52:46,820
divisions of you know Empire and things

1029
00:52:50,110 --> 00:52:48,620
of that sort but there was a real sense

1030
00:52:52,260 --> 00:52:50,120
that they were carrying on that

1031
00:52:57,630 --> 00:52:52,270
tradition they were the last you know

1032
00:53:01,180 --> 00:52:57,640
truly Christian nation was the quote

1033
00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:01,190
there will not be a fourth Rome yeah

1034
00:53:07,660 --> 00:53:03,710
there's a famous there's a famous a monk

1035
00:53:09,250 --> 00:53:07,670
wrote to you know when when this was

1036
00:53:11,410 --> 00:53:09,260
going on saying you know the first Rome

1037
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:11,420
fell the second one did there won't be

1038
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:15,770
third so you know it's sort of there was

1039
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:18,530
this whole apocalyptic millenarian sense

1040
00:53:26,109 --> 00:53:22,609
about this you know this if oh did I

1041
00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:26,119
lose you if Buster Falls and that's the

1042
00:53:28,420 --> 00:53:26,510
end

1043
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:28,430
right right right you dropped out there

1044
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:33,890
for a second okay little panic attack

1045
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:36,079
you gotta love technology the fact that

1046
00:53:41,530 --> 00:53:40,130
we can do this is just amazing to me and

1047
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:41,540
you sound like you're right here in the

1048
00:53:52,180 --> 00:53:43,910
studio and then when it drops for two

1049
00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:52,190
seconds you know we might jump into that

1050
00:54:00,190 --> 00:53:55,609
a little later on tonight now and this

1051
00:54:03,309 --> 00:54:00,200
is the thing because of the and I always

1052
00:54:05,170 --> 00:54:03,319
picture those those Paris cafes right

1053
00:54:07,299 --> 00:54:05,180
everybody change smoking cigarettes and

1054
00:54:10,180 --> 00:54:07,309
drinking coffee and and discussing

1055
00:54:13,660 --> 00:54:10,190
philosophy and politics you know all

1056
00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:13,670
night long waiting hoping to get

1057
00:54:18,849 --> 00:54:15,260
arrested you know it must have been a

1058
00:54:22,859 --> 00:54:18,859
great time but what was the real

1059
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:22,869
influence with Rudolf Steiner and and

1060
00:54:29,859 --> 00:54:27,290
Blavatsky back then because they were

1061
00:54:33,359 --> 00:54:29,869
almost erased from history there was a

1062
00:54:36,099 --> 00:54:33,369
good attempt and a good crack at that

1063
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:36,109
when you think about the way that Russia

1064
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:40,640
needed to deal with this in 1917 how how

1065
00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:43,520
influential were they as you go into

1066
00:54:50,859 --> 00:54:46,670
this research to find out what was

1067
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:50,869
really going on well it was actually

1068
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:54,710
very very influential Blavatsky wasn't

1069
00:54:59,289 --> 00:54:56,770
as much even though she was Russian but

1070
00:55:01,930 --> 00:54:59,299
the problem with Pulaski is that she was

1071
00:55:04,359 --> 00:55:01,940
very critical of Christianity she was

1072
00:55:07,839 --> 00:55:04,369
very critical of the judeo-christian

1073
00:55:09,099 --> 00:55:07,849
tradition and she if you know about man

1074
00:55:11,470 --> 00:55:09,109
with that skin that the oesophagus

1075
00:55:14,770 --> 00:55:11,480
society they they basically had their

1076
00:55:15,970 --> 00:55:14,780
sights set on the east on india and even

1077
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:15,980
you know but that's key got into a lot

1078
00:55:24,289 --> 00:55:21,930
of trouble and and and you know kind of

1079
00:55:27,710 --> 00:55:24,299
problems with wit the Raj when she was

1080
00:55:29,630 --> 00:55:27,720
in India but Steiner who started out as

1081
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:29,640
at the ah Sophists he started out in the

1082
00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:31,770
Theosophical society he developed a kind

1083
00:55:36,970 --> 00:55:33,720
of Christianized version of it a very

1084
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:36,980
westernized kind of version of

1085
00:55:43,490 --> 00:55:39,839
Blavatsky's ideas in theosophy and then

1086
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:43,500
he broke away around around 1912 4:13

1087
00:55:49,180 --> 00:55:46,319
and developed his own school would you

1088
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:49,190
call anthroposophy and theosophy

1089
00:55:54,319 --> 00:55:51,930
theosophy is the the wisdom of the Gods

1090
00:55:56,329 --> 00:55:54,329
so Theo is God and Sophia's wisdom so

1091
00:55:58,039 --> 00:55:56,339
anthro is the wisdom of man or the

1092
00:55:59,809 --> 00:55:58,049
wisdom of human beings which sounds kind

1093
00:56:02,660 --> 00:55:59,819
of clumsy but we don't want to be sexist

1094
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:02,670
so it's that the wisdom of the humans

1095
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:06,000
and he was incredibly influential and

1096
00:56:15,140 --> 00:56:09,839
because his his he has a kind of strange

1097
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:15,150
esoteric variant of Christianity and he

1098
00:56:21,970 --> 00:56:18,930
had given lectures in he's supposed to

1099
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:21,980
be giving lectures in Russia in in 1905

1100
00:56:28,940 --> 00:56:26,250
was his second wife Marie von Seavers

1101
00:56:31,819 --> 00:56:28,950
she was a Baltic Russian and she had

1102
00:56:33,799 --> 00:56:31,829
arranged for him to go to st. Petersburg

1103
00:56:35,839 --> 00:56:33,809
to give a series of lectures because at

1104
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:35,849
this time you know early 1900s

1105
00:56:38,930 --> 00:56:37,680
most of the capitals of Europe were

1106
00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:38,940
caught up in this kind of a cult

1107
00:56:43,309 --> 00:56:40,980
mystical craze I mean you had it in

1108
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:43,319
Paris you had it in London but you

1109
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:45,119
certainly had it in st. Petersburg which

1110
00:56:50,539 --> 00:56:47,930
was this kind of hotbed of this intense

1111
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:50,549
spirituality and focused on mysticism

1112
00:56:55,099 --> 00:56:52,890
that's right and and then the 1905

1113
00:56:59,589 --> 00:56:55,109
revolution like the the one that was

1114
00:57:02,900 --> 00:56:59,599
before the one you know the 1917 one

1115
00:57:07,250 --> 00:57:02,910
that stopped you know started to being

1116
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:07,260
able to go to Russia but in 1906 there

1117
00:57:14,210 --> 00:57:10,170
was a big Theosophical Jamboree in Paris

1118
00:57:17,329 --> 00:57:14,220
and Steiner was there and a lot of the

1119
00:57:20,450 --> 00:57:17,339
Russian intelligentsia and artists who

1120
00:57:22,339 --> 00:57:20,460
sort of fled Russia after the sort of

1121
00:57:24,380 --> 00:57:22,349
collapse of the 1905 revolution they

1122
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,390
turned up in Paris it was the kind of

1123
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:26,640
political refugee capital of Europe then

1124
00:57:31,339 --> 00:57:29,520
and they came to his lectures and he was

1125
00:57:33,049 --> 00:57:31,349
so popular he there was there was this

1126
00:57:35,259 --> 00:57:33,059
kind of rivalry going on between he and

1127
00:57:38,919 --> 00:57:35,269
Annie Besant who was the

1128
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:38,929
dish X suffragettes and Fabian socialist

1129
00:57:44,939 --> 00:57:42,169
who had abandoned all that and taken up

1130
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:44,949
theosophy she became sort of they had a

1131
00:57:48,789 --> 00:57:47,119
Theosophical society up-tempo vet skis

1132
00:57:53,409 --> 00:57:48,799
death and there was a sort of rivalry

1133
00:57:56,199 --> 00:57:53,419
between she and Steiner and when he was

1134
00:57:57,849 --> 00:57:56,209
giving these his own talks in Paris he

1135
00:57:59,349 --> 00:57:57,859
became so popular that you know the

1136
00:58:01,179 --> 00:57:59,359
other Theosophists were jealous of him

1137
00:58:03,699 --> 00:58:01,189
but these Russians they they flocked to

1138
00:58:07,089 --> 00:58:03,709
his his talks and he had this vision of

1139
00:58:08,529 --> 00:58:07,099
this kind of new cultural epic happening

1140
00:58:10,599 --> 00:58:08,539
happening in Russia and again it's this

1141
00:58:13,239 --> 00:58:10,609
whole idea that somehow in the Russian

1142
00:58:17,049 --> 00:58:13,249
soul the Russian psyche has this

1143
00:58:18,729 --> 00:58:17,059
tremendous ability to blend and and meld

1144
00:58:22,089 --> 00:58:18,739
you know opposites kind of together

1145
00:58:26,469 --> 00:58:22,099
contradictory things and there was this

1146
00:58:28,239 --> 00:58:26,479
whole notion that Steiner taking up from

1147
00:58:31,259 --> 00:58:28,249
theosophy he has this idea that there is

1148
00:58:34,329 --> 00:58:31,269
certain kind of evolutionary at box in

1149
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:34,339
the human history I mean if a signer

1150
00:58:39,729 --> 00:58:37,569
goes back into prehistory and he he has

1151
00:58:41,139 --> 00:58:39,739
he knows that this because of his

1152
00:58:43,859 --> 00:58:41,149
researches into what's called the

1153
00:58:48,489 --> 00:58:43,869
Akashic record and he loses this sort of

1154
00:58:50,679 --> 00:58:48,499
esoteric mystical kind of a cult record

1155
00:58:52,749 --> 00:58:50,689
of everything the kind of CD you know

1156
00:58:54,729 --> 00:58:52,759
they woke up and I was used to work in a

1157
00:58:56,769 --> 00:58:54,739
new age bookshelf years ago we used to

1158
00:58:58,059 --> 00:58:56,779
cui used to call it the the Akashic CD

1159
00:59:03,099 --> 00:58:58,069
because you know nobody had records

1160
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:03,109
anymore this is going back into the pre

1161
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:05,599
pre pre history but he said with in the

1162
00:59:09,789 --> 00:59:07,130
beginning of the twentieth century there

1163
00:59:13,329 --> 00:59:09,799
was the the kind of the the pre echo of

1164
00:59:14,229 --> 00:59:13,339
this next huge you know epoch and and

1165
00:59:16,029 --> 00:59:14,239
this different evolution of

1166
00:59:18,279 --> 00:59:16,039
consciousness and he he could see signs

1167
00:59:19,839 --> 00:59:18,289
of it happening in the Russian soul so

1168
00:59:22,029 --> 00:59:19,849
there was a sense of great promise and

1169
00:59:24,399 --> 00:59:22,039
something new something that was going

1170
00:59:25,779 --> 00:59:24,409
to blend together the kind of mystical

1171
00:59:27,759 --> 00:59:25,789
side of the East because you know

1172
00:59:29,439 --> 00:59:27,769
Russia's half asian and half European

1173
00:59:30,879 --> 00:59:29,449
with you know the mystical East with the

1174
00:59:33,209 --> 00:59:30,889
scientific West was supposed to come

1175
00:59:34,989 --> 00:59:33,219
together in this new cultural

1176
00:59:37,209 --> 00:59:34,999
Renaissance that was happening in Russia

1177
00:59:38,319 --> 00:59:37,219
then and there were thinkers in Russia

1178
00:59:41,079 --> 00:59:38,329
who agreed with him you know

1179
00:59:42,879 --> 00:59:41,089
understandably and then yeah they were

1180
00:59:44,529 --> 00:59:42,889
very very influential I mean the whole

1181
00:59:48,030 --> 00:59:44,539
anthroposophical movement was very

1182
00:59:51,540 --> 00:59:48,040
influential in Russia even up until

1183
00:59:54,420 --> 00:59:51,550
after the Bolshevik Revolution there was

1184
00:59:57,450 --> 00:59:54,430
a sense that somehow with you know

1185
01:00:00,270 --> 00:59:57,460
overturning the old ways the you know

1186
01:00:01,770 --> 01:00:00,280
the the previous system there was an

1187
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:01,780
opportunity for something new to come in

1188
01:00:06,330 --> 01:00:04,570
and a great many followers of Steiners

1189
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:06,340
we're kind of fellow travelers with the

1190
01:00:09,630 --> 01:00:08,050
early Bolsheviks but then once you know

1191
01:00:10,740 --> 01:00:09,640
once everything the dust settled and all

1192
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:10,750
that they would they were wiped out

1193
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:13,810
let's take our break right here live

1194
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:16,510
from the UK Gary Lachman is joining us

1195
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:18,970
we're discussing his new book and this

1196
01:00:23,250 --> 01:00:21,250
is the thing we've got the links up

1197
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:23,260
right now over to Amazon where you can

1198
01:00:28,260 --> 01:00:25,680
get your copy the return of holy Russia

1199
01:00:29,850 --> 01:00:28,270
apocalyptic history mystical awakening

1200
01:00:32,460 --> 01:00:29,860
and the struggle for the soul of the

1201
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:32,470
world we will be right back after this

1202
01:00:52,510 --> 01:00:34,090
short break this is fade to black I'm

1203
01:00:56,510 --> 01:00:54,350
this is fade to black

1204
01:01:00,200 --> 01:00:56,520
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

1205
01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,210
radio network and K GRA the global radio

1206
01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:02,000
alliance

1207
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:05,310
this is kera digital broadcasting

1208
01:01:12,170 --> 01:01:08,640
station Salt Lake City Utah Van Buren

1209
01:01:13,820 --> 01:01:12,180
Arkansas hello my name is Billy Carson

1210
01:01:15,860 --> 01:01:13,830
and I'm a best-selling author and the

1211
01:01:17,660 --> 01:01:15,870
founder of forbidden knowledge TV

1212
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:17,670
together with my team we have built a

1213
01:01:21,620 --> 01:01:19,920
all new conscious dreaming TV platform

1214
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:21,630
designed with every family member in

1215
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:23,520
mind if you have ever wanted to travel

1216
01:01:26,510 --> 01:01:24,900
the world and attend lectures and

1217
01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:26,520
workshops from your favorite speakers we

1218
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:29,310
were able to look no further forbidden

1219
01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:31,770
knowledge dot TV there are dozens of

1220
01:01:35,180 --> 01:01:33,510
workshops and lectures from speakers you

1221
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:35,190
know and love we have also included

1222
01:01:39,050 --> 01:01:37,530
amazing categories to assure that your

1223
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:39,060
consciousness is entertained and

1224
01:01:43,490 --> 01:01:41,280
elevating on a daily basis amazing

1225
01:01:46,010 --> 01:01:43,500
interviews ancient history essential

1226
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:46,020
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1227
01:01:50,810 --> 01:01:48,450
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1228
01:01:53,180 --> 01:01:50,820
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1229
01:01:55,370 --> 01:01:53,190
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1230
01:01:56,690 --> 01:01:55,380
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1231
01:02:00,020 --> 01:01:56,700
computer surf they're forbidden

1232
01:02:02,110 --> 01:02:00,030
knowledge TV that's forbidden knowledge

1233
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:02,120
with the number-four forbidden knowledge

1234
01:02:08,650 --> 01:02:05,760
TV again visit forbidden knowledge TV

1235
01:02:14,210 --> 01:02:11,440
introducing the new surfer music app

1236
01:02:17,780 --> 01:02:14,220
listen fade or not you know I love my

1237
01:02:20,690 --> 01:02:17,790
music this is my go-to for all things

1238
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:20,700
notes the surfer app is a brand new

1239
01:02:25,070 --> 01:02:23,010
concept of music listening surfer is

1240
01:02:26,990 --> 01:02:25,080
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1241
01:02:29,300 --> 01:02:27,000
thousands of live streaming radio

1242
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:29,310
stations surfer is an exciting

1243
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:31,050
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1244
01:02:36,530 --> 01:02:33,690
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1245
01:02:39,290 --> 01:02:36,540
surfer is your destination to discover

1246
01:02:41,780 --> 01:02:39,300
and rediscover great live streaming

1247
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:41,790
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1248
01:02:45,650 --> 01:02:44,010
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1249
01:02:48,500 --> 01:02:45,660
thousands of live streaming radio

1250
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:48,510
stations unlimited listening unlimited

1251
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:51,210
skipping you get a music visualizer and

1252
01:02:54,980 --> 01:02:52,890
you can also select your favorite

1253
01:02:56,510 --> 01:02:54,990
channels get it at the Apple App Store

1254
01:02:59,600 --> 01:02:56,520
or Google Play

1255
01:03:01,910 --> 01:02:59,610
just search surfer music or click on the

1256
01:03:05,930 --> 01:03:01,920
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1257
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:08,610
okay nurse let's get this man to the ER

1258
01:03:13,350 --> 01:03:10,810
stat right away doc don't we see this

1259
01:03:15,390 --> 01:03:13,360
every day heart attack or angina pain

1260
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:15,400
due to blocked and clogged arteries

1261
01:03:19,770 --> 01:03:17,920
chelation can remove obstructions or

1262
01:03:21,780 --> 01:03:19,780
blockages from arteries and help avoid

1263
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:21,790
painful and expensive surgery

1264
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:24,010
now there's angio prim it's a liquid

1265
01:03:27,870 --> 01:03:25,930
oral chelation product that you take

1266
01:03:30,420 --> 01:03:27,880
with juice you start to feel the results

1267
01:03:32,370 --> 01:03:30,430
fast angio primm increases blood flow

1268
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:32,380
all over the body and that means more

1269
01:03:37,260 --> 01:03:34,570
energy and strength to take on the day

1270
01:03:39,300 --> 01:03:37,270
with less aches and pains 60 years of

1271
01:03:42,420 --> 01:03:39,310
research has gone into chelation and

1272
01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:42,430
angiogram is the result a safe and easy

1273
01:03:47,460 --> 01:03:44,710
way to unblock your veins and arteries

1274
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:47,470
from buildup that slow circulation dr.

1275
01:03:56,610 --> 01:03:52,240
Jones log on now to angio prim calm

1276
01:03:58,680 --> 01:03:56,620
that's ang IO PR I am calm or to speak

1277
01:04:00,630 --> 01:03:58,690
with a trained consultant give angio

1278
01:04:02,850 --> 01:04:00,640
prima call at nine fifty four eight

1279
01:04:04,980 --> 01:04:02,860
eight to seventy two twenty one that's

1280
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:04,990
nine fifty four eight eight to seventy

1281
01:04:16,620 --> 01:04:15,130
two twenty one this is Rea sobs here

1282
01:04:19,710 --> 01:04:16,630
reppin the planet and you're listening

1283
01:04:20,430 --> 01:04:19,720
to my good friend Jimmy Church fade to

1284
01:04:22,740 --> 01:04:20,440
black

1285
01:04:27,180 --> 01:04:22,750
on the game changer network and the kg

1286
01:04:29,340 --> 01:04:27,190
are a digital broadcast station this is

1287
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:29,350
Toby Kebbell you're listening to Jimmy

1288
01:04:46,030 --> 01:04:43,720
I'm Adrian Grenier and I'm Ari Gold

1289
01:04:48,660 --> 01:04:46,040
where the honey brothers and you're

1290
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:48,670
listening to Jimmy Church revolution

1291
01:04:53,260 --> 01:04:50,930
this is Jimmy Church of fade to black

1292
01:04:55,810 --> 01:04:53,270
and you can become an official fader not

1293
01:04:59,010 --> 01:04:55,820
by just going to our membership section

1294
01:05:01,600 --> 01:04:59,020
at Jimmy Church radio.com

1295
01:05:03,820 --> 01:05:01,610
hello this is Sarina right Kayla from

1296
01:05:06,370 --> 01:05:03,830
conscious life Expo and you're listening

1297
01:05:08,620 --> 01:05:06,380
to fade to black with Jimmy Church who

1298
01:05:13,380 --> 01:05:08,630
holds the lucky pony record for the best

1299
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:13,390
astrological chart since 1963 true story

1300
01:05:17,470 --> 01:05:15,890
this is Micah Hank's of the gray lien

1301
01:05:19,810 --> 01:05:17,480
report and you're listening to Jimmy

1302
01:05:21,910 --> 01:05:19,820
church on fade to black across the globe

1303
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:21,920
on the GameChanger radio network and the

1304
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:47,460
welcome back fade to black high in the

1305
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:49,570
air Oh Stewie Church live from the UK

1306
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:52,810
tonight Gary Lachman joins us discussing

1307
01:05:59,210 --> 01:05:54,730
his new book that return of holy Russia

1308
01:06:02,610 --> 01:05:59,220
and the links forth are up in Twitter

1309
01:06:11,070 --> 01:06:02,620
you go and check it out and now now Gary

1310
01:06:14,750 --> 01:06:11,080
the the the general tone that we were

1311
01:06:17,550 --> 01:06:14,760
seeing in 1900 was that if from the

1312
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:17,560
Theosophical society not only there but

1313
01:06:23,250 --> 01:06:20,260
out of livanski and Rudolf Steiner

1314
01:06:24,990 --> 01:06:23,260
but others other philosophers of the

1315
01:06:28,110 --> 01:06:25,000
time we're talking about this new age

1316
01:06:32,970 --> 01:06:28,120
but they were also discussing Atlantis

1317
01:06:36,420 --> 01:06:32,980
and Hermeticism and things that go back

1318
01:06:39,930 --> 01:06:36,430
thousands of years and they were looking

1319
01:06:42,590 --> 01:06:39,940
at Russia to be the the catalyst of this

1320
01:06:45,570 --> 01:06:42,600
and and the rise in the movement of this

1321
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:45,580
the storm that was happening around the

1322
01:06:52,590 --> 01:06:48,970
world not only the world war but the

1323
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:52,600
revolution that was seemed to want to

1324
01:06:59,190 --> 01:06:55,440
happen so much so many times in Russia

1325
01:07:01,770 --> 01:06:59,200
what did this do to the overall view of

1326
01:07:04,110 --> 01:07:01,780
what they were speaking about but if

1327
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:04,120
Russia doesn't continue the way that

1328
01:07:11,450 --> 01:07:06,850
they needed to continue does this age

1329
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:11,460
also end with it well I mean that was

1330
01:07:15,780 --> 01:07:13,930
for people who you know we're aware of

1331
01:07:18,420 --> 01:07:15,790
this this was kind of the great loss it

1332
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:18,430
was again this is a lost opportunity I

1333
01:07:24,420 --> 01:07:21,250
mean it's not exactly the same but think

1334
01:07:26,610 --> 01:07:24,430
somehow if back you know during the

1335
01:07:29,550 --> 01:07:26,620
Renaissance you know or just at the

1336
01:07:31,590 --> 01:07:29,560
beginning and you know this rediscovery

1337
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:31,600
of the ancient texts that had been lost

1338
01:07:35,310 --> 01:07:33,130
and that's why we you know call the

1339
01:07:37,050 --> 01:07:35,320
previous time the Dark Ages and then

1340
01:07:38,310 --> 01:07:37,060
these things get translated and people

1341
01:07:40,010 --> 01:07:38,320
are just starting to get excited about

1342
01:07:43,770 --> 01:07:40,020
it and then suddenly it was all squashed

1343
01:07:46,050 --> 01:07:43,780
so not quite on this exact same scale

1344
01:07:49,980 --> 01:07:46,060
but it's similar to that so I mean if

1345
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:49,990
you look at leading the years leading up

1346
01:07:53,850 --> 01:07:51,490
to this you have you know the great

1347
01:07:57,090 --> 01:07:53,860
Russian writers like Tolstoy Dostoyevsky

1348
01:07:58,109 --> 01:07:57,100
and and those are the ones we know the

1349
01:08:00,509 --> 01:07:58,119
most in the West but there

1350
01:08:05,339 --> 01:08:00,519
many many others around them and and the

1351
01:08:07,499 --> 01:08:05,349
central moving force then in in terms of

1352
01:08:09,839 --> 01:08:07,509
things happening actually you know on

1353
01:08:13,549 --> 01:08:09,849
the groundout and the practical was the

1354
01:08:16,110 --> 01:08:13,559
plight of the serfs the serfs in Russia

1355
01:08:17,789 --> 01:08:16,120
again not exactly the same but you know

1356
01:08:21,899 --> 01:08:17,799
kind of in the same ballpark we're in a

1357
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:21,909
similar place in society in Russian life

1358
01:08:26,970 --> 01:08:24,880
as the slaves were in the American South

1359
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:26,980
let's say not exactly the same but you

1360
01:08:31,709 --> 01:08:29,770
know similar and the whole idea of what

1361
01:08:35,070 --> 01:08:31,719
are we going to do with the serfs okay

1362
01:08:36,829 --> 01:08:35,080
you have many Russian rulers trying to

1363
01:08:39,090 --> 01:08:36,839
come up with something to be able to

1364
01:08:40,140 --> 01:08:39,100
basically liberate them and free them

1365
01:08:42,419 --> 01:08:40,150
because they lived and you know

1366
01:08:44,459 --> 01:08:42,429
completely miserable conditions many of

1367
01:08:46,169 --> 01:08:44,469
them I mean this was again this is what

1368
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:46,179
one the whole idea like you know there

1369
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:47,920
was so many of them too

1370
01:08:56,309 --> 01:08:53,650
and life was cheap and you can you can

1371
01:08:57,689 --> 01:08:56,319
see also why Christianity would be very

1372
01:09:00,510 --> 01:08:57,699
welcome there because this whole notion

1373
01:09:02,579 --> 01:09:00,520
of each individual life is unique and

1374
01:09:03,930 --> 01:09:02,589
sacred and all that and what people what

1375
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:03,940
the serfs had more than anything else

1376
01:09:06,809 --> 01:09:05,409
was the religion so there was pressure

1377
01:09:09,629 --> 01:09:06,819
to come somehow do something their

1378
01:09:11,070 --> 01:09:09,639
plight was you know so obvious and this

1379
01:09:15,209 --> 01:09:11,080
this built up this was the pressure

1380
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:15,219
cooker that sort of you can say that

1381
01:09:23,370 --> 01:09:19,409
when the kind of spiritual or religious

1382
01:09:26,430 --> 01:09:23,380
impetus to to solve that problem which

1383
01:09:27,899 --> 01:09:26,440
you get in the writings of Dostoevsky

1384
01:09:30,059 --> 01:09:27,909
and Tolstoy and other ones at the time

1385
01:09:34,620 --> 01:09:30,069
when that didn't happen

1386
01:09:37,260 --> 01:09:34,630
you know when sadly the Czar's there was

1387
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:37,270
a couple of them prior to nicholas that

1388
01:09:40,559 --> 01:09:39,250
actually wanted to do something about

1389
01:09:43,079 --> 01:09:40,569
they wanted to somehow change the

1390
01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:43,089
situation the service but fundamentally

1391
01:09:49,590 --> 01:09:46,799
they realized that the whole economy

1392
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:49,600
that would collapse the landowners we

1393
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:51,279
can go for it and in all of that then

1394
01:09:54,899 --> 01:09:52,960
the boyars the aristocracy couldn't go

1395
01:09:56,610 --> 01:09:54,909
for it so even though some some of those

1396
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:56,620
always realized they had to change it

1397
01:09:59,340 --> 01:09:57,760
they couldn't see how they could do

1398
01:10:01,470 --> 01:09:59,350
without something like a complete

1399
01:10:03,300 --> 01:10:01,480
collapse of the society happening and so

1400
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:03,310
when it didn't the problem of the serfs

1401
01:10:08,820 --> 01:10:05,290
wasn't solved that way this is when you

1402
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:08,830
know Lenin basically you know saw an

1403
01:10:11,670 --> 01:10:11,530
opportunity and and and took it and if

1404
01:10:14,730 --> 01:10:11,680
you

1405
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:14,740
Marxist philosophy I mean the revolution

1406
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:16,450
shouldn't have happened there it should

1407
01:10:20,010 --> 01:10:17,650
have happened in highly industrialized

1408
01:10:22,290 --> 01:10:20,020
Germany because in terms of Marx you

1409
01:10:24,750 --> 01:10:22,300
know if you get a highly industrialized

1410
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:24,760
society it's at that level when you know

1411
01:10:28,980 --> 01:10:27,010
the class war will come out and you know

1412
01:10:30,270 --> 01:10:28,990
eventually it will it'll turn into the

1413
01:10:33,330 --> 01:10:30,280
revolution so it should never have

1414
01:10:35,010 --> 01:10:33,340
happened in Russia it was it was such a

1415
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:35,020
situation as you said before that was

1416
01:10:38,970 --> 01:10:37,330
desperately seeking for something right

1417
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:38,980
something that would change things and

1418
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:40,480
gain this this was the match that lit

1419
01:10:49,050 --> 01:10:44,610
the fuse basically well it was tough for

1420
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:49,060
the serfs to have any sympathy for for

1421
01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:51,610
the Tsarist regime at the time when

1422
01:10:58,980 --> 01:10:54,360
you're living in these palaces with the

1423
01:11:02,580 --> 01:10:58,990
extreme wealth that was very far removed

1424
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:02,590
from the serfs and the other part is how

1425
01:11:10,740 --> 01:11:07,600
rooted was the esoteric in surf culture

1426
01:11:12,270 --> 01:11:10,750
because they were religious and that was

1427
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:12,280
a part of them but what about the

1428
01:11:17,730 --> 01:11:15,130
esoteric side was that part of was that

1429
01:11:19,530 --> 01:11:17,740
rooted as well well I think that was

1430
01:11:24,210 --> 01:11:19,540
something more the intellectual the

1431
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:24,220
cultured minority in Russia was more

1432
01:11:28,290 --> 01:11:27,010
open to that and available to in the

1433
01:11:29,700 --> 01:11:28,300
first place that because many of the

1434
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:29,710
service weren't educated think they

1435
01:11:34,290 --> 01:11:31,530
couldn't read right he couldn't write

1436
01:11:38,010 --> 01:11:34,300
and they lived at this they were living

1437
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:38,020
in the same way that the SERPs had been

1438
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:39,610
living for the last thousand years I

1439
01:11:42,510 --> 01:11:41,110
mean they were they were living very

1440
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:42,520
much in the same way again this was

1441
01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:46,090
another thing about Russia the Russian

1442
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:47,980
in the past was that it was still sort

1443
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:49,120
of half of it was still in the Middle

1444
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:52,810
Ages and you had the great you know

1445
01:11:56,550 --> 01:11:54,610
renovators people like Peter the Great

1446
01:11:58,470 --> 01:11:56,560
who was the Great Western Iser who you

1447
01:12:02,790 --> 01:11:58,480
know in the 18th century he starts to

1448
01:12:04,830 --> 01:12:02,800
try and drag Russia into you know what

1449
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:04,840
was the modern world then you know make

1450
01:12:08,850 --> 01:12:06,640
it more European that's that's when st.

1451
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:08,860
Petersburg is created and st. Petersburg

1452
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:13,050
is a invented city it was just laid out

1453
01:12:17,490 --> 01:12:15,850
like a graph and it's it's based it's

1454
01:12:19,710 --> 01:12:17,500
basically st. Petersburg is based on

1455
01:12:21,780 --> 01:12:19,720
Amsterdam it's based on the city of

1456
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:21,790
canals and it's all in a kind of graph

1457
01:12:26,220 --> 01:12:23,890
and it's like you know

1458
01:12:27,510 --> 01:12:26,230
a checkerboard so you know that kind of

1459
01:12:30,300 --> 01:12:27,520
thing with the canals and this was

1460
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:30,310
invented by Peter the Great because he

1461
01:12:35,970 --> 01:12:32,320
wanted a window onto the west people he

1462
01:12:37,890 --> 01:12:35,980
wanted to westernize and that that's

1463
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:37,900
there for a while but gradually it just

1464
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:39,690
doesn't take it just doesn't take and

1465
01:12:43,860 --> 01:12:41,770
the serfs they were deeply deeply

1466
01:12:45,150 --> 01:12:43,870
religious and you said there was this

1467
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:45,160
kind of resentment towards the

1468
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:47,890
aristocracy but towards the boyars you

1469
01:12:51,090 --> 01:12:49,330
know which were the aristocracy there

1470
01:12:54,030 --> 01:12:51,100
was but not actually towards the Tsar

1471
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:54,040
himself kosis there's this familial and

1472
01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:56,410
they need a relationship raised the

1473
01:12:59,940 --> 01:12:58,090
little father right he's a little

1474
01:13:01,530 --> 01:12:59,950
father's mother Russia which is the land

1475
01:13:03,420 --> 01:13:01,540
the soil and then the Tsar was little

1476
01:13:05,100 --> 01:13:03,430
father and up into the very end they

1477
01:13:07,710 --> 01:13:05,110
really believe that you know he had

1478
01:13:08,970 --> 01:13:07,720
their best interests in heart but you

1479
01:13:10,590 --> 01:13:08,980
know if you know anything about Russian

1480
01:13:12,660 --> 01:13:10,600
history the last Tsar Nicholas he was

1481
01:13:15,950 --> 01:13:12,670
many ways completely removed from the

1482
01:13:19,710 --> 01:13:15,960
people living in this kind of bubble we

1483
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:19,720
Rita and I we study this we discussed

1484
01:13:26,850 --> 01:13:22,570
this so much it is one of the craziest

1485
01:13:30,750 --> 01:13:26,860
parts of world history that you can ever

1486
01:13:31,980 --> 01:13:30,760
go and study it was a crazy time there's

1487
01:13:37,980 --> 01:13:31,990
no question about that

1488
01:13:42,980 --> 01:13:37,990
and when 1917 rolls around there is

1489
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:42,990
there's an image in the West now that

1490
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:45,690
religion and churches throughout

1491
01:13:51,890 --> 01:13:49,090
communism were shuttered and there

1492
01:13:55,140 --> 01:13:51,900
wasn't any wood but you can't remove

1493
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:55,150
religion from the people but that's what

1494
01:14:01,170 --> 01:13:57,130
they attempted to do and completely

1495
01:14:04,410 --> 01:14:01,180
stomp out everything was the goal of

1496
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:04,420
Lenin as he took power right yeah I mean

1497
01:14:10,980 --> 01:14:09,730
I mean yeah simple simple idea and this

1498
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:10,990
way it worked it was like this hope

1499
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:12,130
there was going to be a revolutionary

1500
01:14:19,050 --> 01:14:16,170
elite and again this goes back to a

1501
01:14:23,220 --> 01:14:19,060
couple decades before him you have in

1502
01:14:24,990 --> 01:14:23,230
the 1860s and 70s you have what you have

1503
01:14:27,390 --> 01:14:25,000
this rise of what are known as the new

1504
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:27,400
man and and these are very westernized

1505
01:14:33,780 --> 01:14:29,770
russian intellectuals who are extremely

1506
01:14:36,180 --> 01:14:33,790
pragmatic extremely utilitarian no

1507
01:14:36,990 --> 01:14:36,190
idealism nothing noble about this the

1508
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:37,000
whole thing is like

1509
01:14:41,660 --> 01:14:38,890
you know we have to take power this is

1510
01:14:44,430 --> 01:14:41,670
how we do it and the whole idea was to

1511
01:14:45,810 --> 01:14:44,440
again drag Russian Russian culture

1512
01:14:47,430 --> 01:14:45,820
dragged Russia into the modern world

1513
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:47,440
which at that time coming out of the

1514
01:14:52,050 --> 01:14:50,170
West was very pragmatic and utilitarian

1515
01:14:53,790 --> 01:14:52,060
you know John Mill and you know the

1516
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:53,800
greatest good of the greatest number and

1517
01:14:56,370 --> 01:14:54,850
all those sort of things so there's

1518
01:14:58,200 --> 01:14:56,380
nothing mystical and spiritual about

1519
01:15:01,010 --> 01:14:58,210
this this is completely pragmatic and

1520
01:15:05,330 --> 01:15:01,020
Lenin comes out of that background and

1521
01:15:08,670 --> 01:15:05,340
his main idea was we have to get rid of

1522
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:08,680
this notion of the spirit you have to

1523
01:15:14,430 --> 01:15:10,930
get rid of this notion of this inner

1524
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:14,440
world that the religion kind of panders

1525
01:15:18,450 --> 01:15:16,810
to because for him as for Marx you know

1526
01:15:19,860 --> 01:15:18,460
religion was the opium of the people so

1527
01:15:22,110 --> 01:15:19,870
this was something that was preventing

1528
01:15:25,740 --> 01:15:22,120
you know the great change from going on

1529
01:15:30,150 --> 01:15:25,750
and so yeah I mean he he set out to sort

1530
01:15:31,950 --> 01:15:30,160
of wiped out religion or not only

1531
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:31,960
religion but any kind of interior sense

1532
01:15:38,970 --> 01:15:34,930
and as if there's a wonderful in the

1533
01:15:42,930 --> 01:15:38,980
sense of just remarkable part of this

1534
01:15:45,780 --> 01:15:42,940
story was that in 1922 more or less

1535
01:15:48,590 --> 01:15:45,790
after the Civil War had had settled down

1536
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:48,600
and you know the dust head had cleared

1537
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:51,760
there were many of these philosophers

1538
01:15:56,790 --> 01:15:53,770
and thinkers and poets and writers from

1539
01:15:58,200 --> 01:15:56,800
the Silver Age was still there and some

1540
01:16:00,390 --> 01:15:58,210
of them were fellow travelers because

1541
01:16:02,700 --> 01:16:00,400
they didn't like the past regime you

1542
01:16:05,610 --> 01:16:02,710
know they were aware of the inequities

1543
01:16:07,140 --> 01:16:05,620
of the aristocracy and so on and they

1544
01:16:09,480 --> 01:16:07,150
want to change too but they didn't want

1545
01:16:11,790 --> 01:16:09,490
it as radically or in the same radical

1546
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:11,800
way as Lenin did but he felt that he

1547
01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:13,330
couldn't eliminate them you know he

1548
01:16:17,250 --> 01:16:15,310
would get bad press in the West so he

1549
01:16:20,220 --> 01:16:17,260
put them all on these these steamers you

1550
01:16:22,950 --> 01:16:20,230
know these sort of steamboats and he

1551
01:16:24,990 --> 01:16:22,960
exiled them out of the West and there's

1552
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:25,000
what they call the philosophy steamers

1553
01:16:31,230 --> 01:16:29,290
so in like the fall of 1922 these big

1554
01:16:34,380 --> 01:16:31,240
kind of you know steam boats are leaving

1555
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:34,390
Russia ended going to the west and just

1556
01:16:38,940 --> 01:16:36,490
getting rid of all these philosophers

1557
01:16:40,440 --> 01:16:38,950
and thinkers who you know very different

1558
01:16:42,390 --> 01:16:40,450
but they all share this notion of a kind

1559
01:16:45,330 --> 01:16:42,400
of real interior world where as Lenin

1560
01:16:47,370 --> 01:16:45,340
not know nothing I mean his the outer

1561
01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:47,380
world is the only real reality physical

1562
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:49,450
reality is the only real reality and if

1563
01:16:52,890 --> 01:16:50,410
you don't accept that

1564
01:16:54,690 --> 01:16:52,900
you're basically insane this and and and

1565
01:16:57,690 --> 01:16:54,700
this was something that you know it went

1566
01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:57,700
for a while but right but by the time by

1567
01:17:02,370 --> 01:16:59,920
the time you get into the 30s and Lenin

1568
01:17:05,420 --> 01:17:02,380
is gone and Stalinism power

1569
01:17:08,100 --> 01:17:05,430
to kind of shift back towards this

1570
01:17:10,020 --> 01:17:08,110
religious you know kind of sentiment

1571
01:17:11,430 --> 01:17:10,030
takes place and Stalin becomes the kind

1572
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:11,440
of religious leader at the same time

1573
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:14,410
that you know that he's the leader of

1574
01:17:18,620 --> 01:17:16,210
the communist nation and certainly when

1575
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:18,630
the war starts you know international

1576
01:17:23,820 --> 01:17:20,650
communism is not going to get too many

1577
01:17:26,070 --> 01:17:23,830
people up and out to fight the Nazis but

1578
01:17:28,470 --> 01:17:26,080
protecting Mother Russia you know and

1579
01:17:31,890 --> 01:17:28,480
becomes holy Russia again so yes this is

1580
01:17:33,300 --> 01:17:31,900
a deeply ingrained sense of you know the

1581
01:17:35,430 --> 01:17:33,310
religious dimension of life is in these

1582
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:35,440
people and it just can't get eradicated

1583
01:17:40,340 --> 01:17:38,080
there's another part to this I want to

1584
01:17:45,630 --> 01:17:40,350
touch upon before we get to the break

1585
01:17:49,050 --> 01:17:45,640
there is I'm just going to be very

1586
01:17:54,690 --> 01:17:49,060
straight about this there is an element

1587
01:17:56,490 --> 01:17:54,700
to Russia with an open mind that believe

1588
01:18:01,410 --> 01:17:56,500
it or not I don't think it exists in the

1589
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:01,420
West that is when it comes to the

1590
01:18:08,310 --> 01:18:04,570
esoteric and Hermeticism and also things

1591
01:18:13,700 --> 01:18:08,320
like ESP and and the powers of the mind

1592
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:13,710
and and other other beliefs that Russia

1593
01:18:20,940 --> 01:18:17,170
not only believed in but they did it in

1594
01:18:25,980 --> 01:18:20,950
a scientific research sense the KGB was

1595
01:18:28,440 --> 01:18:25,990
involved we're into these these you know

1596
01:18:30,690 --> 01:18:28,450
the supernatural and the paranormal and

1597
01:18:33,510 --> 01:18:30,700
everything else that goes along with it

1598
01:18:35,820 --> 01:18:33,520
right that that the United States and

1599
01:18:39,050 --> 01:18:35,830
its military establishment did not

1600
01:18:43,260 --> 01:18:39,060
embrace and it's because of Russia's

1601
01:18:47,250 --> 01:18:43,270
deep-rooted values into these principles

1602
01:18:48,750 --> 01:18:47,260
and it lasted all through communism all

1603
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:48,760
the way through to the fall of Russia

1604
01:18:54,900 --> 01:18:51,610
which continues through to this day does

1605
01:18:58,410 --> 01:18:54,910
that go back to the age of Blavatsky and

1606
01:19:00,630 --> 01:18:58,420
Rudolf dinah and the way that these

1607
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:00,640
beliefs were a part of their

1608
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:04,250
unified Church right that had both both

1609
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:07,250
things going on at the same time no

1610
01:19:11,020 --> 01:19:09,650
you're absolutely right something in the

1611
01:19:12,370 --> 01:19:11,030
Russian psyche universe and soul has

1612
01:19:14,110 --> 01:19:12,380
always been open to these things didn't

1613
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:14,120
have to remember you know Marxism

1614
01:19:18,970 --> 01:19:16,970
communism was a Western import it didn't

1615
01:19:22,780 --> 01:19:18,980
grow out of Russia whose imported from

1616
01:19:25,810 --> 01:19:22,790
the West I mean during World War one the

1617
01:19:28,630 --> 01:19:25,820
Kaiser weaponized Lenin you know Lenin

1618
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:28,640
was in exile in the West that he put him

1619
01:19:32,500 --> 01:19:30,770
on a train and the famous you know story

1620
01:19:34,390 --> 01:19:32,510
about the field to the Finland station

1621
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:34,400
and so he's puts on a train and he sent

1622
01:19:39,460 --> 01:19:37,370
into Russia and he he's the one who

1623
01:19:41,410 --> 01:19:39,470
gathers the you know the revolution

1624
01:19:43,630 --> 01:19:41,420
going and gets it going and all that so

1625
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:43,640
it's that the communism the materialism

1626
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:47,090
that we associate with communism and not

1627
01:19:50,290 --> 01:19:49,130
ami materialism in Black Friday and

1628
01:19:52,930 --> 01:19:50,300
buying lots of things but in the

1629
01:19:54,610 --> 01:19:52,940
metaphysical sense that matter you know

1630
01:19:56,590 --> 01:19:54,620
physical matter is the only really real

1631
01:19:59,500 --> 01:19:56,600
thing I mean these are Western imports

1632
01:20:02,800 --> 01:19:59,510
and they were forced in many ways forced

1633
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:02,810
upon sort of the Russian psyche but that

1634
01:20:10,290 --> 01:20:05,570
would soon after yeah you have the KGB

1635
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:10,300
you have different departments and in

1636
01:20:16,810 --> 01:20:13,040
early you know Bolshevik the Soviet

1637
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:16,820
regime or researching elements of the

1638
01:20:26,020 --> 01:20:20,210
esoteric I mean there was a whole plan

1639
01:20:29,230 --> 01:20:26,030
to send people into Tibet because there

1640
01:20:35,620 --> 01:20:29,240
was this idea that the ancient Tibetans

1641
01:20:37,870 --> 01:20:35,630
had their philosophy would somehow work

1642
01:20:39,460 --> 01:20:37,880
well with the Communist notion of you

1643
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:39,470
know sort of the kind of egalitarian

1644
01:20:44,890 --> 01:20:42,800
notions of communism but they also were

1645
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:44,900
thought to have access to this what we

1646
01:20:50,170 --> 01:20:46,850
would call technology this kind of super

1647
01:20:52,420 --> 01:20:50,180
science you know and somehow you know

1648
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:52,430
secluded in the fastness of these caves

1649
01:20:56,410 --> 01:20:54,530
in Tibet where the were this was this

1650
01:20:58,750 --> 01:20:56,420
remarkable knowledge and they were you

1651
01:21:00,490 --> 01:20:58,760
know different departments for kind of

1652
01:21:03,370 --> 01:21:00,500
vying with each other to get the funds

1653
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:03,380
to mount expeditions to go into Tibet

1654
01:21:11,050 --> 01:21:09,050
and again in the 1920s but going back

1655
01:21:13,700 --> 01:21:11,060
into the early you know a bit earlier

1656
01:21:19,190 --> 01:21:13,710
1890s

1657
01:21:21,770 --> 01:21:19,200
the great game in India and this kind of

1658
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:21,780
you know chess game political chess game

1659
01:21:26,440 --> 01:21:23,730
between the the British and the Russians

1660
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:26,450
for influence in India at that time and

1661
01:21:31,670 --> 01:21:29,730
this is Kim you know if there the read

1662
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:31,680
your Kipling story is a sort of based on

1663
01:21:39,410 --> 01:21:34,530
that but then in the 1920s you have

1664
01:21:40,850 --> 01:21:39,420
someone like the Russian artist and he

1665
01:21:42,950 --> 01:21:40,860
became a guru in the West Nicholas

1666
01:21:47,060 --> 01:21:42,960
Roerich who was at the AUSA fest he was

1667
01:21:49,370 --> 01:21:47,070
also a painter he's he was the

1668
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:49,380
inspiration for Stravinsky's Rite of

1669
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,360
Spring which was this you know the

1670
01:21:55,550 --> 01:21:53,760
inauguration of the modern age and music

1671
01:21:58,580 --> 01:21:55,560
and it when it was inaugurated and

1672
01:22:00,950 --> 01:21:58,590
whenever first debuted in Paris there

1673
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:00,960
were riots in 1913 because the music was

1674
01:22:06,380 --> 01:22:04,770
so raucous and the piece of music itself

1675
01:22:10,690 --> 01:22:06,390
is based on this notion of an ancient

1676
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:10,700
Russian sort of return for a ritual of

1677
01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:13,890
fertility that's why it's spring and all

1678
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:18,450
that and so and what at one point what

1679
01:22:23,870 --> 01:22:20,370
roerich tries to do is a fantastic story

1680
01:22:25,430 --> 01:22:23,880
III tell it in the book and also in an

1681
01:22:27,140 --> 01:22:25,440
earlier book Oh politics in the occult

1682
01:22:30,010 --> 01:22:27,150
is that in the nineteen twenties he

1683
01:22:32,450 --> 01:22:30,020
tried to set up a pan Buddhist nation

1684
01:22:35,180 --> 01:22:32,460
sort of in Central Asia

1685
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:35,190
and getting Buddhists from tobacco

1686
01:22:40,570 --> 01:22:38,250
mongolia china and and and the outlying

1687
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:40,580
areas around me to come together into a

1688
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:42,960
kind of Union the United Buddhist nation

1689
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:45,090
and this was all based on this ancient

1690
01:22:50,690 --> 01:22:47,810
legend of Shambhala which is this hidden

1691
01:22:53,060 --> 01:22:50,700
secret mystical you know city or poor

1692
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:53,070
civilization he supposed to be you know

1693
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:54,930
somewhere under the Gobi Desert or

1694
01:23:00,110 --> 01:22:57,330
somewhere else like that right and and

1695
01:23:01,970 --> 01:23:00,120
and the the Bolsheviks at the time the

1696
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:01,980
Soviet Union at the time they were

1697
01:23:06,050 --> 01:23:03,690
interested in this their interest is

1698
01:23:09,709 --> 01:23:06,060
interested in the idea there is you know

1699
01:23:12,979 --> 01:23:09,719
you know what I'm gonna jump in because

1700
01:23:17,570 --> 01:23:12,989
yeah I need your comment on this when

1701
01:23:20,870 --> 01:23:17,580
when I see images of not only Tibet

1702
01:23:22,459 --> 01:23:20,880
which was the 13th Department of the KGB

1703
01:23:25,879 --> 01:23:22,469
right the secret department

1704
01:23:28,339 --> 01:23:25,889
and you look at the these road trips

1705
01:23:32,709 --> 01:23:28,349
that they were doing not only into Tibet

1706
01:23:36,649 --> 01:23:32,719
but into Egypt and looking for Shambhala

1707
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:36,659
these were military officers in uniform

1708
01:23:43,459 --> 01:23:39,690
you didn't see anthropologists right

1709
01:23:46,339 --> 01:23:43,469
civilians archaeologists curators at a

1710
01:23:50,450 --> 01:23:46,349
museum going to look for interesting

1711
01:23:53,089 --> 01:23:50,460
things and and looking at history it was

1712
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:53,099
always men in uniform which says that

1713
01:23:58,729 --> 01:23:55,530
the interest was at a whole nother level

1714
01:24:03,290 --> 01:23:58,739
than than education or university right

1715
01:24:05,870 --> 01:24:03,300
oh absolutely I mean the maxim gorky

1716
01:24:10,669 --> 01:24:05,880
who's one of the well-known writers from

1717
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:10,679
from this period he he believed in what

1718
01:24:16,759 --> 01:24:13,130
we today would call mental science or

1719
01:24:18,500 --> 01:24:16,769
new thought or positive thinking and he

1720
01:24:22,609 --> 01:24:18,510
was very much involved in very early

1721
01:24:27,290 --> 01:24:22,619
research into parapsychology and so did

1722
01:24:29,469 --> 01:24:27,300
telekinesis or telepathy and and he

1723
01:24:32,540 --> 01:24:29,479
wanted to use this sort of for

1724
01:24:34,250 --> 01:24:32,550
propagandist reasons too you know you

1725
01:24:37,790 --> 01:24:34,260
had the you have the you had the whole a

1726
01:24:40,219 --> 01:24:37,800
jet prop you know works going on where

1727
01:24:41,719 --> 01:24:40,229
you know traveling theatres and

1728
01:24:44,540 --> 01:24:41,729
musicians are going throughout you know

1729
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:44,550
Russia to different parts of the country

1730
01:24:50,029 --> 01:24:46,170
and bringing the message and all that

1731
01:24:51,919 --> 01:24:50,039
but he said well what if this telepathy

1732
01:24:53,060 --> 01:24:51,929
is true and he believed it was in there

1733
01:24:54,529 --> 01:24:53,070
and there were quite a few Russian

1734
01:24:56,450 --> 01:24:54,539
scientists at the time researching it

1735
01:24:58,640 --> 01:24:56,460
and they they came up but what they

1736
01:25:00,560 --> 01:24:58,650
considered to be evidence you know for

1737
01:25:03,410 --> 01:25:00,570
it being fractional so why can't we use

1738
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:03,420
this why don't we somehow you know use

1739
01:25:08,660 --> 01:25:05,130
this to spread the word and also at the

1740
01:25:11,239 --> 01:25:08,670
same time if we can learn these

1741
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:11,249
techniques of self development and you

1742
01:25:14,989 --> 01:25:13,170
know spiritual evolution why can't we

1743
01:25:17,359 --> 01:25:14,999
use these to create you know better and

1744
01:25:19,100 --> 01:25:17,369
better comrades basically better and

1745
01:25:20,660 --> 01:25:19,110
other human beings and so there was you

1746
01:25:23,930 --> 01:25:20,670
know it was a real practical sense it

1747
01:25:25,850 --> 01:25:23,940
was and it carried on it was going on in

1748
01:25:27,589 --> 01:25:25,860
the 70s and it's you know it's it's

1749
01:25:29,270 --> 01:25:27,599
still going on to some degree today but

1750
01:25:31,069 --> 01:25:29,280
it's because it was part of their

1751
01:25:35,029 --> 01:25:31,079
culture right you can't have that

1752
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:35,039
discussion at the Pentagon well I mean

1753
01:25:39,830 --> 01:25:36,330
what I understand apparently

1754
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:39,840
you do but it's hush-hush and people

1755
01:25:43,970 --> 01:25:41,280
come on your show and talk about it and

1756
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:43,980
spill the beans but but no I mean again

1757
01:25:47,870 --> 01:25:46,770
this is something that you have to

1758
01:25:51,440 --> 01:25:47,880
remember you have to think you know

1759
01:25:53,450 --> 01:25:51,450
think at this time by 1917 and the

1760
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:53,460
Bolshevik Revolution you had Wars were

1761
01:25:58,670 --> 01:25:56,010
you had the whole problem with Russia

1762
01:26:01,460 --> 01:25:58,680
itself you know to begin with in a

1763
01:26:03,890 --> 01:26:01,470
century of it trying to deal with the

1764
01:26:05,330 --> 01:26:03,900
serfs and and and and to drag it into

1765
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:05,340
the modern world then you have World War

1766
01:26:12,440 --> 01:26:10,290
one erupt and Russia basically has

1767
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:12,450
soldiers and that's about it you know

1768
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:15,810
many of them go in they don't have much

1769
01:26:19,070 --> 01:26:17,370
ammunition if they have any ammunition

1770
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:19,080
some of them don't even have you know

1771
01:26:23,870 --> 01:26:20,610
rifles or anything they're just

1772
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:23,880
basically fodder they're just thrown you

1773
01:26:28,220 --> 01:26:25,650
know thousands and thousands of them are

1774
01:26:30,170 --> 01:26:28,230
just thrown you know against against the

1775
01:26:32,450 --> 01:26:30,180
enemy and all that and then you have the

1776
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:32,460
Russian Revolution happen right and then

1777
01:26:37,070 --> 01:26:35,250
you've got the Civil War and so you have

1778
01:26:39,440 --> 01:26:37,080
this country that's in complete collapse

1779
01:26:41,750 --> 01:26:39,450
I mean we you know things are dicey for

1780
01:26:44,270 --> 01:26:41,760
us today and you know things have been

1781
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:44,280
very iffy in the last few years in the

1782
01:26:49,370 --> 01:26:46,650
West but nothing like what happened in

1783
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:49,380
Russia at the time and if you ever the

1784
01:26:54,740 --> 01:26:53,370
the one of the it's not a direct account

1785
01:26:57,710 --> 01:26:54,750
of that but it's a book that's written

1786
01:26:59,570 --> 01:26:57,720
against that backdrop is this remarkable

1787
01:27:02,660 --> 01:26:59,580
book called in search of the miraculous

1788
01:27:04,540 --> 01:27:02,670
which is by russian philosopher PDUs

1789
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:04,550
penske and he was the follower of this

1790
01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:07,290
enigmatic greek armenian esoteric

1791
01:27:10,670 --> 01:27:09,120
teacher Gurdjieff who wasn't russian

1792
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:10,680
himself but he appeared in russia

1793
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:12,810
just-just-just in the years leading up

1794
01:27:18,140 --> 01:27:15,690
to the revolution but that is the

1795
01:27:19,570 --> 01:27:18,150
universe that is the universe working

1796
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:19,580
with us Gary

1797
01:27:27,290 --> 01:27:23,250
Gurdjieff was our subject for the next

1798
01:27:30,500 --> 01:27:27,300
segment yeah and okay so let's actually

1799
01:27:34,100 --> 01:27:30,510
take a break right here and also when we

1800
01:27:35,780 --> 01:27:34,110
come back when as I'm reading the book

1801
01:27:38,840 --> 01:27:35,790
and you bring up you know the new

1802
01:27:41,860 --> 01:27:38,850
Russian man right Eurasian and I didn't

1803
01:27:46,910 --> 01:27:41,870
realize that that term was that old

1804
01:27:50,630 --> 01:27:46,920
right and that is a pretty effective

1805
01:27:52,580 --> 01:27:50,640
use in the media today of that word

1806
01:27:54,649 --> 01:27:52,590
we're gonna talk about that as well when

1807
01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:54,659
we come back our guest tonight live from

1808
01:27:58,580 --> 01:27:56,730
the UK Gary Lachman is here we're

1809
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:58,590
discussing his new book it's called the

1810
01:28:02,810 --> 01:28:00,960
return of holy Russia apocalyptic

1811
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:02,820
history mystical awakening and the

1812
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:04,770
struggle for the soul of the world this

1813
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:05,850
is fade to black

1814
01:28:24,979 --> 01:28:07,530
I'm your host Jimmy Church more of Gary

1815
01:28:32,459 --> 01:28:28,160
way out here we listen to Jimmy Church

1816
01:28:34,500 --> 01:28:32,469
you're listening to fade to black always

1817
01:28:37,319 --> 01:28:34,510
on the edge of the hottest alternative

1818
01:28:54,810 --> 01:28:37,329
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1819
01:28:57,569 --> 01:28:54,820
stay GRA radio.com do you want to be an

1820
01:28:59,549 --> 01:28:57,579
official fade or not of course you do

1821
01:29:02,100 --> 01:28:59,559
this is Jimmy Church of fade to black

1822
01:29:05,959 --> 01:29:02,110
just go to our membership section at

1823
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:08,729
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1824
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1825
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1826
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1832
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you can also select your favorite

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or Google Play

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just search sir

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01:30:00,750 --> 01:29:57,550
for music or click on the surfer banner

1845
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at Jimmy Church radio.com go back late a

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01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:06,730
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1856
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1858
01:30:47,020 --> 01:30:39,380
to us and we listen to you and so does

1859
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the CI k GRA radio.com if you have hard

1860
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1861
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1862
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1863
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1864
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1865
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1866
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1867
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1868
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1869
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1870
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:09,800
smells and looks satisfaction guaranteed

1871
01:31:16,570 --> 01:31:12,170
for more information go to best water 1

1872
01:31:18,940 --> 01:31:16,580
2 3 com that's best water 1 2 3 com are

1873
01:31:21,580 --> 01:31:18,950
you intrigued by paranormal talk radio

1874
01:31:24,790 --> 01:31:21,590
you love the new paranormal radio app

1875
01:31:26,710 --> 01:31:24,800
from talk stream live you'll find a

1876
01:31:30,100 --> 01:31:26,720
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1877
01:31:32,500 --> 01:31:30,110
UFOs ghosts strange phenomena and much

1878
01:31:34,810 --> 01:31:32,510
more download the paranormal radio app

1879
01:31:36,610 --> 01:31:34,820
now and start listening to the very best

1880
01:31:38,500 --> 01:31:36,620
in paranormal talk entertainment

1881
01:31:40,870 --> 01:31:38,510
including the network you're listening

1882
01:31:44,050 --> 01:31:40,880
to right now the paranormal radio app

1883
01:31:48,850 --> 01:31:44,060
free in Google Play and the iOS App

1884
01:31:51,130 --> 01:31:48,860
Store you are listening to fade to black

1885
01:31:53,150 --> 01:31:51,140
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

1886
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:53,160
Network

1887
01:31:59,400 --> 01:31:56,530
hi I'm Lisa Vance you're listening to

1888
01:32:02,220 --> 01:31:59,410
Jimmy Church this is revolution the

1889
01:32:48,350 --> 01:32:02,230
revolution will not be televised the

1890
01:32:52,830 --> 01:32:50,670
welcome back fade to black male shimmy

1891
01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:52,840
church tonight live from the UK Gary

1892
01:32:58,820 --> 01:32:56,050
Lachman joins us discussing his new book

1893
01:33:01,260 --> 01:32:58,830
it's called the return of holy Russia

1894
01:33:02,940 --> 01:33:01,270
we've got the links right there up in

1895
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:02,950
Twitter you can go and check it out

1896
01:33:08,310 --> 01:33:05,890
right now on Amazon now Gary let me let

1897
01:33:14,250 --> 01:33:08,320
me say this out of the gate about Girja

1898
01:33:17,100 --> 01:33:14,260
if I I have to read a synopsis when it

1899
01:33:22,260 --> 01:33:17,110
comes to Gurdjieff his writing itself is

1900
01:33:25,140 --> 01:33:22,270
is above me I can't it's exhausting

1901
01:33:28,410 --> 01:33:25,150
you know and I know that in concept he

1902
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:28,420
should be my guy and some of my favorite

1903
01:33:33,060 --> 01:33:30,730
researchers like John Anthony West you

1904
01:33:35,850 --> 01:33:33,070
know he's a bigger G of guy and and how

1905
01:33:38,190 --> 01:33:35,860
he changed his life and and you go and

1906
01:33:42,180 --> 01:33:38,200
you start to read things you know the

1907
01:33:45,930 --> 01:33:42,190
forth way it is it is deep heady stuff

1908
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:45,940
it is it is for a true intellectual of

1909
01:33:52,170 --> 01:33:49,810
which I am NOT and and there you go I'm

1910
01:33:55,590 --> 01:33:52,180
just kind of I'm coming clean I just

1911
01:33:58,440 --> 01:33:55,600
need to be of it he's just he is tough

1912
01:34:02,070 --> 01:33:58,450
you have to be ready to Rieger GF don't

1913
01:34:04,590 --> 01:34:02,080
you yeah I mean I think Garzon writing

1914
01:34:07,140 --> 01:34:04,600
well especially the the huge tome of his

1915
01:34:10,710 --> 01:34:07,150
Beelzebub's tales to his grandson which

1916
01:34:13,020 --> 01:34:10,720
I mean depending on who is talking about

1917
01:34:15,330 --> 01:34:13,030
it it's either you know he just can't

1918
01:34:17,810 --> 01:34:15,340
write because it's it's it's this long

1919
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:17,820
shaggy dog kind of story where this

1920
01:34:21,900 --> 01:34:20,290
dependent clause and parenthetical

1921
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:21,910
remark and you never quite get to the

1922
01:34:25,710 --> 01:34:24,010
end of the sentence and but other people

1923
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:25,720
said no he wrote this on he wrote it in

1924
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:27,250
that way on purpose to make it difficult

1925
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:28,930
for people so you know they'd have to

1926
01:34:32,910 --> 01:34:30,250
make it effort and really work at

1927
01:34:36,450 --> 01:34:32,920
getting to sort of you know his meaning

1928
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:36,460
but his other book which I think is more

1929
01:34:41,010 --> 01:34:38,170
people do read meetings with remarkable

1930
01:34:43,410 --> 01:34:41,020
men which was made into a film by Peter

1931
01:34:45,690 --> 01:34:43,420
Brook in the late 70s I mean that's

1932
01:34:47,490 --> 01:34:45,700
actually very very simple and clear and

1933
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:47,500
it's it's stories about different people

1934
01:34:52,590 --> 01:34:50,320
he met in his early years when he was in

1935
01:34:55,110 --> 01:34:52,600
search his own search of the miraculous

1936
01:34:59,070 --> 01:34:55,120
is his search for sort of hidden wisdom

1937
01:35:00,990 --> 01:34:59,080
and in Egypt and in in the Holy Lands

1938
01:35:03,810 --> 01:35:01,000
and places like that

1939
01:35:06,330 --> 01:35:03,820
but yeah I mean I mean that the one

1940
01:35:08,100 --> 01:35:06,340
people usually go to is who's been skis

1941
01:35:10,140 --> 01:35:08,110
book is a certain search of miraculous

1942
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:10,150
and this was loose Penske wrote an

1943
01:35:14,010 --> 01:35:12,370
account of the years he was with Gore

1944
01:35:16,590 --> 01:35:14,020
Jeff I mean dispense ki was one of these

1945
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:16,600
cultured uses student right he was a

1946
01:35:22,140 --> 01:35:19,930
huge student yeah well yes he did but

1947
01:35:25,530 --> 01:35:22,150
he's he well the thing is the story is

1948
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:25,540
go Jeff entrapped him on purpose because

1949
01:35:29,850 --> 01:35:28,090
kerchief needed a good front frontman

1950
01:35:31,860 --> 01:35:29,860
basically I mean I'm not trying to

1951
01:35:33,750 --> 01:35:31,870
diminish Jeff's importance by saying I'm

1952
01:35:36,030 --> 01:35:33,760
just kind of speaking quickly to kind of

1953
01:35:38,550 --> 01:35:36,040
shorthand here but much in the same way

1954
01:35:41,340 --> 01:35:38,560
that Madame Blavatsky ensnared Colonel

1955
01:35:43,230 --> 01:35:41,350
Olcott Colonel Olcott bovitz key

1956
01:35:44,790 --> 01:35:43,240
appeared in you know after traveling

1957
01:35:47,900 --> 01:35:44,800
around the world a few times as she says

1958
01:35:50,780 --> 01:35:47,910
she appears in New York in 1873 and then

1959
01:35:54,810 --> 01:35:50,790
she reads the series of articles that

1960
01:35:59,390 --> 01:35:54,820
Colonel Henry steel Olcott who was

1961
01:36:01,890 --> 01:35:59,400
actually you know a very important

1962
01:36:03,510 --> 01:36:01,900
character at the time he was one among

1963
01:36:05,670 --> 01:36:03,520
other things he was one of the people

1964
01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:05,680
Commission to investigate Abraham

1965
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:08,050
Lincoln's assassination and he was

1966
01:36:12,230 --> 01:36:09,730
agricultural writer and things of this

1967
01:36:15,050 --> 01:36:12,240
sort but he became very interested in

1968
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:15,060
spiritualism and so on

1969
01:36:18,930 --> 01:36:17,290
which is very popular at the time and he

1970
01:36:21,330 --> 01:36:18,940
wrote a series of articles about this

1971
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:21,340
haunting in Vermont they've asked you

1972
01:36:25,140 --> 01:36:23,290
read those and she purposely went out of

1973
01:36:28,490 --> 01:36:25,150
the way to meet him and kind of ensnare

1974
01:36:30,930 --> 01:36:28,500
him because she was a wild crazy

1975
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:30,940
explosive kind of character and she

1976
01:36:37,620 --> 01:36:35,010
needed a very sober you know logical

1977
01:36:38,670 --> 01:36:37,630
sort of frontman so all caught served

1978
01:36:41,070 --> 01:36:38,680
that purpose for her

1979
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:41,080
likewise with moose Penske moose Penske

1980
01:36:47,970 --> 01:36:43,650
was a well-known respected writer on

1981
01:36:51,630 --> 01:36:47,980
mystical esoteric philosophical subjects

1982
01:36:55,860 --> 01:36:51,640
he wrote for many Russian newspapers at

1983
01:36:57,810 --> 01:36:55,870
the time and he he gave lectures that

1984
01:37:01,680 --> 01:36:57,820
were well attended he was among the many

1985
01:37:03,660 --> 01:37:01,690
artists who hung out at a place called

1986
01:37:05,100 --> 01:37:03,670
the stray dog cafe in st. Petersburg

1987
01:37:08,370 --> 01:37:05,110
which was a famous kind of bohemian

1988
01:37:11,340 --> 01:37:08,380
hangout in the early 20th century and

1989
01:37:13,260 --> 01:37:11,350
people like the poet mayakovsky who's

1990
01:37:16,159 --> 01:37:13,270
the famous poet from from the revolution

1991
01:37:22,679 --> 01:37:19,529
motiva and other painters and writers

1992
01:37:24,569 --> 01:37:22,689
hung out there and who Spence key went

1993
01:37:27,659 --> 01:37:24,579
on his own search for the miraculous he

1994
01:37:30,839 --> 01:37:27,669
went to ashram in India and he visited

1995
01:37:32,369 --> 01:37:30,849
the pyramids and he got to know Sufis

1996
01:37:34,259 --> 01:37:32,379
and all this kind of thing so he was

1997
01:37:36,290 --> 01:37:34,269
searching for this ancient wisdom which

1998
01:37:38,459 --> 01:37:36,300
again is something that's very peculiar

1999
01:37:40,829 --> 01:37:38,469
to the Russian soul they go on these

2000
01:37:42,899 --> 01:37:40,839
pilgrimages they go they go wandering

2001
01:37:45,629 --> 01:37:42,909
out into the world you know in search of

2002
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:45,639
the mystical and the religious so but as

2003
01:37:49,229 --> 01:37:47,050
penske came back to Russia kind of

2004
01:37:50,369 --> 01:37:49,239
empty-handed and he felt like he didn't

2005
01:37:53,909 --> 01:37:50,379
find what he was looking for in these

2006
01:37:55,139 --> 01:37:53,919
places and then these people came to one

2007
01:37:57,989 --> 01:37:55,149
of his lectures and they said no you

2008
01:38:00,869 --> 01:37:57,999
must meet this this person we know this

2009
01:38:02,310 --> 01:38:00,879
Armenian Greek named named G and he

2010
01:38:03,929 --> 01:38:02,320
doesn't even name him in his book in

2011
01:38:05,909 --> 01:38:03,939
search of miraculous he just calls him G

2012
01:38:07,739 --> 01:38:05,919
and he goes and he meets him and he's

2013
01:38:09,929 --> 01:38:07,749
completely bowled over by kerchief his

2014
01:38:12,389 --> 01:38:09,939
kerchief is someone who's been ski

2015
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:12,399
quickly sees he's the man who knows he's

2016
01:38:16,829 --> 01:38:14,530
someone who's traveled he's gone to

2017
01:38:18,959 --> 01:38:16,839
places at his penske couldn't get to but

2018
01:38:24,329 --> 01:38:18,969
he's also he radiates this kind of power

2019
01:38:27,329 --> 01:38:24,339
he radiates this kind of self-possession

2020
01:38:30,089 --> 01:38:27,339
he seems you know to be you know a man

2021
01:38:32,639 --> 01:38:30,099
of tower and response key basically

2022
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:32,649
decides okay I will I will come under

2023
01:38:36,509 --> 01:38:34,570
your tutelage I will learn from you and

2024
01:38:39,509 --> 01:38:36,519
he spends quite a few years with

2025
01:38:41,699 --> 01:38:39,519
Gurdjieff what years was this this is

2026
01:38:44,669 --> 01:38:41,709
about since 1914 this is just before the

2027
01:38:47,069 --> 01:38:44,679
beginning of the war penske starts the

2028
01:38:49,649 --> 01:38:47,079
book search the miraculous which he

2029
01:38:53,009 --> 01:38:49,659
wrote during the 20s and actually it

2030
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:53,019
wasn't published until the late 40s so

2031
01:38:58,259 --> 01:38:55,570
he kept it back it wasn't published

2032
01:39:01,139 --> 01:38:58,269
until after he died he died in 47 but he

2033
01:39:03,389 --> 01:39:01,149
came back from his journey in India and

2034
01:39:07,829 --> 01:39:03,399
Ceylon and Egypt and all these places

2035
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:07,839
just before the beginning of World War 1

2036
01:39:13,159 --> 01:39:09,760
even says you know I write back in

2037
01:39:16,290 --> 01:39:13,169
Moscow when you know the rumors of war

2038
01:39:19,649 --> 01:39:16,300
had started and he meets he meets

2039
01:39:22,020 --> 01:39:19,659
kerchief in this kind of backstreet cafe

2040
01:39:23,399 --> 01:39:22,030
somewhere in Moscow and it's like the

2041
01:39:25,409 --> 01:39:23,409
last place in the world that he thought

2042
01:39:27,900 --> 01:39:25,419
he would meet someone a mystical teacher

2043
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:27,910
because it's this kind of very drab

2044
01:39:32,280 --> 01:39:30,610
you know bourgeois setting you know just

2045
01:39:34,350 --> 01:39:32,290
like you know wherever you know someone

2046
01:39:36,630 --> 01:39:34,360
sort of small businessmen to be to these

2047
01:39:40,230 --> 01:39:36,640
cafes and something like that big did

2048
01:39:43,130 --> 01:39:40,240
Gurdjieff have his eyes on ya yes Penske

2049
01:39:47,580 --> 01:39:43,140
at the time yeah yeah yeah exactly he

2050
01:39:49,260 --> 01:39:47,590
read his articles in the newspapers and

2051
01:39:51,480 --> 01:39:49,270
he kerchief said the students that he

2052
01:39:53,850 --> 01:39:51,490
had to go basically again whose Penske

2053
01:39:55,530 --> 01:39:53,860
go to his lectures bring him here we

2054
01:39:58,980 --> 01:39:55,540
have we have to get him in we have to

2055
01:40:01,080 --> 01:39:58,990
get him in and whose Penske again it was

2056
01:40:04,770 --> 01:40:01,090
brilliant he had already made a name for

2057
01:40:06,750 --> 01:40:04,780
himself with his with his book so he was

2058
01:40:07,380 --> 01:40:06,760
someone who was well known I mean again

2059
01:40:10,020 --> 01:40:07,390
that's the other thing

2060
01:40:11,490 --> 01:40:10,030
Spence key was well known kerchief he

2061
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:11,500
didn't become really very well known

2062
01:40:16,770 --> 01:40:13,570
until again after his death I mean there

2063
01:40:19,170 --> 01:40:16,780
were people he comes through the West in

2064
01:40:21,930 --> 01:40:19,180
the 20s again it's a fantastic story

2065
01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:21,940
because Russia's collapsed both of them

2066
01:40:27,810 --> 01:40:25,530
find themselves in in refugee camps in

2067
01:40:29,700 --> 01:40:27,820
Constantinople assumed to be hist humble

2068
01:40:33,510 --> 01:40:29,710
you know trying to get into Europe like

2069
01:40:37,770 --> 01:40:33,520
many immigrants today coming from the

2070
01:40:41,550 --> 01:40:37,780
east are trying to and this fantastic

2071
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:41,560
story but is Fenske he saved from this

2072
01:40:45,780 --> 01:40:44,530
refugee camp because lady Rothermere who

2073
01:40:48,270 --> 01:40:45,790
was the wife of the famous newspaper

2074
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:48,280
Baron in England at the time she was a

2075
01:40:53,790 --> 01:40:51,610
reader of his books and she tracked him

2076
01:40:55,620 --> 01:40:53,800
down and sent him a telegram saying

2077
01:40:57,300 --> 01:40:55,630
money no expense you know where do you

2078
01:40:59,460 --> 01:40:57,310
want to meet London New York and all

2079
01:41:03,630 --> 01:40:59,470
that and so she shipped him over to

2080
01:41:06,570 --> 01:41:03,640
London and this 1921 and she sets him up

2081
01:41:08,370 --> 01:41:06,580
in to give lectures in a fashionable

2082
01:41:10,230 --> 01:41:08,380
part of London st. John's word and

2083
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:10,240
people like TS Eliot you know the poet

2084
01:41:16,710 --> 01:41:13,570
Aldous Huxley right others are coming to

2085
01:41:19,980 --> 01:41:16,720
these lectures and he's teaching them

2086
01:41:21,540 --> 01:41:19,990
not what he had written about already

2087
01:41:22,140 --> 01:41:21,550
there's a book of his called tertium

2088
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:22,150
organum

2089
01:41:26,100 --> 01:41:24,010
which means the third organ of thought

2090
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:26,110
and he's talking about higher space and

2091
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:29,050
the 6th and 5th 4th dimension and you

2092
01:41:33,270 --> 01:41:31,170
know he was very interested in time and

2093
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:33,280
notions of different dimensions of time

2094
01:41:35,790 --> 01:41:34,330
and things of that sort but he's

2095
01:41:37,230 --> 01:41:35,800
teaching them this new system that he's

2096
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:37,240
learned from Gurdjieff which is

2097
01:41:41,429 --> 01:41:39,850
radically austere and the fundamental

2098
01:41:43,649 --> 01:41:41,439
idea is that you know we're all

2099
01:41:45,839 --> 01:41:43,659
machines we think we're free but we're

2100
01:41:47,939 --> 01:41:45,849
actually we're mechanical or we think

2101
01:41:49,979 --> 01:41:47,949
we're awake but for really asleep and we

2102
01:41:51,149 --> 01:41:49,989
can't awake we can't become free but you

2103
01:41:54,929 --> 01:41:51,159
have to go through this long and

2104
01:41:56,909 --> 01:41:54,939
difficult process of training ourselves

2105
01:41:58,830 --> 01:41:56,919
you know how to achieve and maintain

2106
01:42:01,739 --> 01:41:58,840
these these states of more wakefulness

2107
01:42:03,799 --> 01:42:01,749
and intense consciousness and dispense

2108
01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:03,809
key becomes his front man and and

2109
01:42:09,750 --> 01:42:06,489
introduces Gurdjieff to the west this is

2110
01:42:13,169 --> 01:42:09,760
still being researched today in in

2111
01:42:15,719 --> 01:42:13,179
Russia all of these concepts about you

2112
01:42:18,089 --> 01:42:15,729
know the brain and consciousness and who

2113
01:42:20,459 --> 01:42:18,099
is running whoo right are you running

2114
01:42:22,379 --> 01:42:20,469
yeah yeah absolutely I mean one of the

2115
01:42:24,179 --> 01:42:22,389
things is with the collapse of the USSR

2116
01:42:26,279 --> 01:42:24,189
because all of this esoteric literature

2117
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:26,289
was banned right you couldn't get it

2118
01:42:33,659 --> 01:42:30,130
right it was available in Thomas not you

2119
01:42:37,259 --> 01:42:33,669
know the forbidden kind of you know

2120
01:42:38,759 --> 01:42:37,269
Xerox Nemea graft you know this is

2121
01:42:41,009 --> 01:42:38,769
obviously well before the internet and

2122
01:42:43,049 --> 01:42:41,019
things of that sort so pages from these

2123
01:42:44,669 --> 01:42:43,059
books are getting sort of circulated in

2124
01:42:46,770 --> 01:42:44,679
these groups but you know the official

2125
01:42:48,209 --> 01:42:46,780
culture this is old banned and all of

2126
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:48,219
that and even writers like to us they

2127
01:42:52,259 --> 01:42:51,489
have ski you know to see up ski was he

2128
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:52,269
wasn't left

2129
01:42:55,799 --> 01:42:54,010
he wasn't progressive in that way you

2130
01:42:57,870 --> 01:42:55,809
know his his leanings were more towards

2131
01:42:59,939 --> 01:42:57,880
tradition and that that tends to put you

2132
01:43:04,500 --> 01:42:59,949
on the right side of the political

2133
01:43:06,089 --> 01:43:04,510
spectrum so he wasn't you know you know

2134
01:43:07,529 --> 01:43:06,099
one of the greatest writers of the world

2135
01:43:13,109 --> 01:43:07,539
he's up there with Shakespeare but you

2136
01:43:15,330 --> 01:43:13,119
know he wasn't even what when you when

2137
01:43:18,060 --> 01:43:15,340
you when you look back at this certainly

2138
01:43:21,959 --> 01:43:18,070
with researching how this is what's so

2139
01:43:25,169 --> 01:43:21,969
interesting to me how fascinated are you

2140
01:43:30,149 --> 01:43:25,179
with the forward thinking that was going

2141
01:43:33,179 --> 01:43:30,159
on from 1890 to 1920 of totally

2142
01:43:36,449 --> 01:43:33,189
visionary in that today we're speaking

2143
01:43:40,790 --> 01:43:36,459
about this now but this is but this is

2144
01:43:43,009 --> 01:43:40,800
what we do today and they were actually

2145
01:43:46,890 --> 01:43:43,019
developing and speaking about these

2146
01:43:50,729 --> 01:43:46,900
concepts 100 years ago isn't that

2147
01:43:53,159 --> 01:43:50,739
mind-blowing totally absolutely I mean

2148
01:43:55,649 --> 01:43:53,169
one of the things I say in the book is

2149
01:43:58,949 --> 01:43:55,659
that many of the I

2150
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:58,959
is or the sensibility that was expressed

2151
01:44:03,989 --> 01:44:00,880
in this period with these mystical

2152
01:44:06,089 --> 01:44:03,999
philosophers and was lost with the rise

2153
01:44:08,549 --> 01:44:06,099
of the Bolsheviks oh there's something

2154
01:44:10,709 --> 01:44:08,559
that we can we could benefit from today

2155
01:44:13,159 --> 01:44:10,719
and this is one of the main reasons for

2156
01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:13,169
doing the book is that because I knew

2157
01:44:18,209 --> 01:44:16,090
the III knew the writers and

2158
01:44:19,799 --> 01:44:18,219
philosophers that Putin was referring to

2159
01:44:21,870 --> 01:44:19,809
I mentioned this reading list he was

2160
01:44:23,429 --> 01:44:21,880
giving to his regional governors that's

2161
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:23,439
why that's why I knew when David Brooks

2162
01:44:26,669 --> 01:44:25,119
and people in new york times when they

2163
01:44:28,679 --> 01:44:26,679
were writing their critical response to

2164
01:44:30,149 --> 01:44:28,689
this that they either they did it on

2165
01:44:34,379 --> 01:44:30,159
purpose or they just were ignorant about

2166
01:44:36,060 --> 01:44:34,389
you know the true kind of sentiment that

2167
01:44:37,770 --> 01:44:36,070
these philosophers were expressing and

2168
01:44:39,149 --> 01:44:37,780
so i thought no this is wrong you know

2169
01:44:43,489 --> 01:44:39,159
they're they're they're painting them as

2170
01:44:45,629 --> 01:44:43,499
these kind of totalitarian you know

2171
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:45,639
Exceptionalist kind of thing and yes

2172
01:44:51,299 --> 01:44:47,050
there was this notion that russia was

2173
01:44:53,520 --> 01:44:51,309
going to be able to lead you know the

2174
01:44:55,500 --> 01:44:53,530
world into this new kind of age but it

2175
01:44:57,209 --> 01:44:55,510
wasn't sort of the dominance of russia

2176
01:44:58,919 --> 01:44:57,219
in this kind of political sense not to

2177
01:45:00,569 --> 01:44:58,929
say that people at the time didn't read

2178
01:45:01,799 --> 01:45:00,579
it that way and wanted to one wanted it

2179
01:45:04,290 --> 01:45:01,809
to be that way but it was in this kind

2180
01:45:07,729 --> 01:45:04,300
of spiritual sense i mean though there

2181
01:45:11,370 --> 01:45:07,739
was a there was a famous philosopher in

2182
01:45:12,270 --> 01:45:11,380
the late 19th century the West people in

2183
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:12,280
the West not really know him but his

2184
01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:13,570
name is Vladimir Soloviev

2185
01:45:18,719 --> 01:45:16,570
and actually Steiner spoke even quoted

2186
01:45:21,810 --> 01:45:18,729
that notice penske spoke of him too but

2187
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:21,820
he repeatedly kind of appealed to the

2188
01:45:27,390 --> 01:45:25,570
Czar at the time to you know embody in

2189
01:45:32,850 --> 01:45:27,400
your own being these Christian virtues

2190
01:45:35,159 --> 01:45:32,860
in these Christian values and the wealth

2191
01:45:36,870 --> 01:45:35,169
there was trying to think which which

2192
01:45:39,049 --> 01:45:36,880
one it was well one of those ours his

2193
01:45:42,149 --> 01:45:39,059
father had just been assassinated and

2194
01:45:43,469 --> 01:45:42,159
that's how he came to power and this is

2195
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:43,479
another thing that it was happening all

2196
01:45:47,879 --> 01:45:45,489
the time it's time towards our Tsar

2197
01:45:51,209 --> 01:45:47,889
getting blown up and shot at and all the

2198
01:45:52,679 --> 01:45:51,219
time and solovyev asked the new Tsar I

2199
01:45:54,929 --> 01:45:52,689
said you know as your first act why

2200
01:45:57,000 --> 01:45:54,939
don't you be lenient towards you know

2201
01:45:58,500 --> 01:45:57,010
the assassins show this Christian virtue

2202
01:46:01,169 --> 01:45:58,510
of forgiveness and all this kind of

2203
01:46:02,669 --> 01:46:01,179
thing and lead the world in this and the

2204
01:46:04,379 --> 01:46:02,679
Tsar said no I'm you know these people

2205
01:46:05,909 --> 01:46:04,389
are going to be executed I'm going to

2206
01:46:07,709 --> 01:46:05,919
unpin down and all this sort of thing so

2207
01:46:09,340 --> 01:46:07,719
is this whole notion of Russia being

2208
01:46:11,410 --> 01:46:09,350
able to be this example this

2209
01:46:15,220 --> 01:46:11,420
exemplar at this time of this you know

2210
01:46:17,470 --> 01:46:15,230
spiritual sort of consciousness and a

2211
01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:17,480
lot of those ideas or stuff that's

2212
01:46:22,660 --> 01:46:19,850
around today in the New Age I mean again

2213
01:46:24,670 --> 01:46:22,670
the whole the whole kind of resurgence

2214
01:46:26,350 --> 01:46:24,680
of interest in the magic and the

2215
01:46:29,530 --> 01:46:26,360
esoteric and the mystical that sort of

2216
01:46:32,890 --> 01:46:29,540
in in the West in the modern age that

2217
01:46:34,390 --> 01:46:32,900
gets going sort of in the 1960s this is

2218
01:46:36,820 --> 01:46:34,400
my first book is about this called turn

2219
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:36,830
off your mind which is about the occult

2220
01:46:41,470 --> 01:46:39,530
revival of the 1960s right um those

2221
01:46:43,690 --> 01:46:41,480
ideas go back to Blavatsky those ideas

2222
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:43,700
go back to the late 19th century I mean

2223
01:46:49,510 --> 01:46:45,770
if you do a bit of history and a do bit

2224
01:46:52,420 --> 01:46:49,520
of homework and you look at there's this

2225
01:46:54,730 --> 01:46:52,430
was a remarkable place in Switzerland

2226
01:46:57,910 --> 01:46:54,740
called monteverde the mountain of truth

2227
01:47:00,520 --> 01:46:57,920
and it's in its narrow place called

2228
01:47:03,100 --> 01:47:00,530
Ascona which is in the Italian section

2229
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:03,110
of Switzerland and it has this strange

2230
01:47:06,450 --> 01:47:04,970
microclimate of its own it's you you

2231
01:47:11,110 --> 01:47:06,460
think you're in the Mediterranean there

2232
01:47:12,400 --> 01:47:11,120
it's remarkable but in the 1890s 1900s

2233
01:47:16,650 --> 01:47:12,410
this is where like some of the first

2234
01:47:20,860 --> 01:47:16,660
communes back-to-nature

2235
01:47:23,770 --> 01:47:20,870
matrix you're free love experiment with

2236
01:47:25,510 --> 01:47:23,780
drugs and experiment with you know

2237
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:25,520
different mystical yoga all these ideas

2238
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:28,850
the vegetarianism all this kind of stuff

2239
01:47:33,670 --> 01:47:30,890
is happening then and it gets kind of in

2240
01:47:35,350 --> 01:47:33,680
a repackage in the 60s and again you

2241
01:47:37,510 --> 01:47:35,360
know with us it's become part of this

2242
01:47:38,980 --> 01:47:37,520
new age mind/body/spirit culture that's

2243
01:47:41,980 --> 01:47:38,990
been with us now for a few decades

2244
01:47:46,290 --> 01:47:41,990
yeah and it's it's way over a hundred

2245
01:47:49,860 --> 01:47:46,300
years old you can say and you read

2246
01:47:53,020 --> 01:47:49,870
especially when you read some of the

2247
01:47:56,290 --> 01:47:53,030
presentations by Rudolf Steiner or or

2248
01:47:58,450 --> 01:47:56,300
any of beloved skis writings and you

2249
01:48:00,370 --> 01:47:58,460
feel also you know what I can go into HP

2250
01:48:03,820 --> 01:48:00,380
Lovecraft you brought that up too as

2251
01:48:08,740 --> 01:48:03,830
well full on could have been written

2252
01:48:10,900 --> 01:48:08,750
last week and I'm not I'm not kidding

2253
01:48:15,250 --> 01:48:10,910
about that soul is speaking about that

2254
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:15,260
in 1920 when you said that the the new

2255
01:48:20,860 --> 01:48:16,010
rush

2256
01:48:24,820 --> 01:48:20,870
the Eurasian movement was there was was

2257
01:48:28,330 --> 01:48:24,830
the esoteric and mysticism part of the

2258
01:48:32,040 --> 01:48:28,340
Eurasian ideals oh well there's a kind

2259
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:32,050
of mysticism it was sort of comes out of

2260
01:48:38,140 --> 01:48:35,890
what was known as the Slava file

2261
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:38,150
movement in the nineteenth century which

2262
01:48:41,740 --> 01:48:40,370
was I kind of returned to Russian roots

2263
01:48:44,970 --> 01:48:41,750
it was sort of the anti European

2264
01:48:49,810 --> 01:48:44,980
movement right so he had the Westerners

2265
01:48:52,210 --> 01:48:49,820
sort of following the sort of trajectory

2266
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:52,220
that Peter the Great starts and tried to

2267
01:48:56,020 --> 01:48:54,170
westernize and I mentioned the new men

2268
01:48:58,720 --> 01:48:56,030
you know they were kind of bringing in

2269
01:49:01,120 --> 01:48:58,730
these strictly utilitarian practical you

2270
01:49:03,100 --> 01:49:01,130
know graph paper ideas about how to you

2271
01:49:04,690 --> 01:49:03,110
know have a new society and the slava

2272
01:49:08,020 --> 01:49:04,700
files had this notion of this mystical

2273
01:49:09,910 --> 01:49:08,030
sense of the Russian soul and they have

2274
01:49:12,100 --> 01:49:09,920
they had this idealized version of the

2275
01:49:15,010 --> 01:49:12,110
Russian peasant and and he has he has

2276
01:49:16,690 --> 01:49:15,020
these deep roots in the soil deep roots

2277
01:49:19,570 --> 01:49:16,700
in the earth right right it's the whole

2278
01:49:22,510 --> 01:49:19,580
notion of a kind of peasant wisdom and

2279
01:49:24,430 --> 01:49:22,520
this kind of deep intuition that isn't

2280
01:49:26,590 --> 01:49:24,440
articulate like in the West it isn't

2281
01:49:28,900 --> 01:49:26,600
very you know eloquent ik doesn't use

2282
01:49:30,850 --> 01:49:28,910
words very well but it has a great deal

2283
01:49:34,090 --> 01:49:30,860
of soul I mean this again another thing

2284
01:49:36,310 --> 01:49:34,100
that the Russian people in psyche you

2285
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:36,320
noted for is this kind of deep sense of

2286
01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:39,050
soul and and and and and unity in

2287
01:49:43,180 --> 01:49:40,490
connection with each other's hope that

2288
01:49:45,280 --> 01:49:43,190
the notion of brotherhood I mean one of

2289
01:49:46,330 --> 01:49:45,290
the people I write about in the early

2290
01:49:49,230 --> 01:49:46,340
part of the book who's the German

2291
01:49:52,750 --> 01:49:49,240
philosopher named Oswald Spengler and

2292
01:49:54,970 --> 01:49:52,760
he's not as well known these days but in

2293
01:49:55,780 --> 01:49:54,980
the early 20th century he was actually

2294
01:49:57,700 --> 01:49:55,790
well known because you read a book

2295
01:49:59,890 --> 01:49:57,710
called the decline of the West and this

2296
01:50:01,780 --> 01:49:59,900
is one of the early kind of big big

2297
01:50:03,970 --> 01:50:01,790
bestsellers about how the West was you

2298
01:50:07,270 --> 01:50:03,980
know in its last days and it was a huge

2299
01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:07,280
bestseller in Europe and in the

2300
01:50:11,230 --> 01:50:09,290
english-speaking countries as well and

2301
01:50:14,170 --> 01:50:11,240
it came it was published just after

2302
01:50:15,970 --> 01:50:14,180
World War 1 this whole idea that said

2303
01:50:17,830 --> 01:50:15,980
was that he had this biological view of

2304
01:50:19,870 --> 01:50:17,840
civilizations in history the

2305
01:50:22,060 --> 01:50:19,880
civilizations were organisms and they're

2306
01:50:23,830 --> 01:50:22,070
born they grow they mature they reach a

2307
01:50:26,410 --> 01:50:23,840
peak and then they start to decline and

2308
01:50:28,940 --> 01:50:26,420
they die how popular was the book for

2309
01:50:32,950 --> 01:50:30,200
it was really part of me it was really

2310
01:50:34,820 --> 01:50:32,960
well known I mean all the you know

2311
01:50:36,770 --> 01:50:34,830
brilliant minds of the time we're

2312
01:50:38,780 --> 01:50:36,780
discussing it right because you hear

2313
01:50:42,650 --> 01:50:38,790
people reference it all the time I

2314
01:50:45,650 --> 01:50:42,660
haven't read it but just the title of

2315
01:50:48,620 --> 01:50:45,660
the book suggests it must have been

2316
01:50:51,350 --> 01:50:48,630
pretty powerful and it's actually it's

2317
01:50:53,480 --> 01:50:51,360
whether you agree with his thesis or not

2318
01:50:54,710 --> 01:50:53,490
it's a it's cut the way the book is

2319
01:50:58,520 --> 01:50:54,720
written it's actually hypnotic because

2320
01:51:00,730 --> 01:50:58,530
he he has this marvelous way of showing

2321
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:00,740
analogies between different

2322
01:51:04,910 --> 01:51:02,730
civilizations at different times in

2323
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:04,920
history so chronologically there are

2324
01:51:09,620 --> 01:51:07,650
different times but morphologically the

2325
01:51:11,480 --> 01:51:09,630
way they're shaped their form right is

2326
01:51:13,160 --> 01:51:11,490
similar so he would say I don't know

2327
01:51:16,730 --> 01:51:13,170
just top of my head you know a certain

2328
01:51:19,070 --> 01:51:16,740
kind of political movement starting in

2329
01:51:21,230 --> 01:51:19,080
ancient Rome at a certain time is

2330
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:21,240
mirrored in modern times by something

2331
01:51:24,110 --> 01:51:22,800
you know some other movement somewhere

2332
01:51:26,540 --> 01:51:24,120
else in other country you know they're

2333
01:51:28,820 --> 01:51:26,550
separated by by centuries but in their

2334
01:51:30,620 --> 01:51:28,830
form and and so it's this whole this

2335
01:51:32,450 --> 01:51:30,630
whole notion that there's a shape to

2336
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:32,460
history this is shape to I mean the

2337
01:51:36,170 --> 01:51:33,810
Western idea is that it just kind of

2338
01:51:38,030 --> 01:51:36,180
goes on you know there's no kind of it's

2339
01:51:41,150 --> 01:51:38,040
progress you know increasing

2340
01:51:44,060 --> 01:51:41,160
technological technological mastery of

2341
01:51:45,530 --> 01:51:44,070
the world and increasing you know higher

2342
01:51:47,690 --> 01:51:45,540
standards of living but there isn't the

2343
01:51:49,190 --> 01:51:47,700
sense that there's a kind of shape to

2344
01:51:50,120 --> 01:51:49,200
time there's a kind of shape to his and

2345
01:51:52,100 --> 01:51:50,130
again this is something that the

2346
01:51:53,390 --> 01:51:52,110
Russians have this is sort of shaped the

2347
01:51:56,150 --> 01:51:53,400
history history is heading towards

2348
01:51:59,270 --> 01:51:56,160
something there's a trajectory and

2349
01:52:02,570 --> 01:51:59,280
Spangler he believed that the West was

2350
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:02,580
going under and that there was this

2351
01:52:08,090 --> 01:52:06,050
Eurasian notion this was something that

2352
01:52:10,190 --> 01:52:08,100
again it's around the time of the

2353
01:52:12,440 --> 01:52:10,200
revolution there were these Russian

2354
01:52:15,740 --> 01:52:12,450
intellectuals who they weren't Marxists

2355
01:52:19,670 --> 01:52:15,750
and they weren't Leninists but they they

2356
01:52:22,010 --> 01:52:19,680
didn't care for the Czar and that regime

2357
01:52:24,680 --> 01:52:22,020
as well and what they believed was going

2358
01:52:27,500 --> 01:52:24,690
to happen was that the revolution was

2359
01:52:29,300 --> 01:52:27,510
happening it wasn't going to last it was

2360
01:52:34,580 --> 01:52:29,310
going to collapse it would collapse soon

2361
01:52:37,130 --> 01:52:34,590
and so the Eurasian is that there were

2362
01:52:39,980 --> 01:52:37,140
these intellectuals who left Russia they

2363
01:52:42,430 --> 01:52:39,990
went into exile into places like Prague

2364
01:52:44,110 --> 01:52:42,440
and Paris and others

2365
01:52:45,880 --> 01:52:44,120
and what they were doing is they were

2366
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:45,890
waiting out the revolution and they were

2367
01:52:50,950 --> 01:52:48,890
going to return to Russia and again they

2368
01:52:51,670 --> 01:52:50,960
knew that Russia would need a new

2369
01:52:52,750 --> 01:52:51,680
identity

2370
01:52:54,490 --> 01:52:52,760
you know once once the revolution

2371
01:52:56,050 --> 01:52:54,500
collapse which they believe is going to

2372
01:52:58,900 --> 01:52:56,060
happen it would need a new sense of

2373
01:53:01,360 --> 01:52:58,910
direction and they developed this notion

2374
01:53:03,970 --> 01:53:01,370
of Eurasia and Eurasia is you know it

2375
01:53:06,610 --> 01:53:03,980
means Europe and Asia and Russia was

2376
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:06,620
supposed to be this new Eurasian

2377
01:53:10,479 --> 01:53:09,290
civilization that was arising as the

2378
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:10,489
West was going under

2379
01:53:15,970 --> 01:53:13,570
according to Spangler this new

2380
01:53:17,740 --> 01:53:15,980
civilization was going to arise and it

2381
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:17,750
would be this Eurasian civilization and

2382
01:53:22,479 --> 01:53:20,330
it reached from Vladivostok to you know

2383
01:53:24,340 --> 01:53:22,489
st. Petersburg and it was this huge is

2384
01:53:27,970 --> 01:53:24,350
the biggest landmass on the planet you

2385
01:53:29,290 --> 01:53:27,980
know the mother of all continents and it

2386
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:29,300
was going to come into its own with its

2387
01:53:34,900 --> 01:53:31,010
own kind of culture its own you know

2388
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:34,910
sense of how society should be organized

2389
01:53:42,240 --> 01:53:37,010
its own politics it's its own everything

2390
01:53:46,750 --> 01:53:44,650
trying to catch up with Europe you know

2391
01:53:51,220 --> 01:53:46,760
and again in Russian history that was

2392
01:53:52,450 --> 01:53:51,230
happening a lot and Peter's a court and

2393
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:52,460
the Catherine the Great and others they

2394
01:53:55,300 --> 01:53:53,330
were they're westernized every

2395
01:53:57,910 --> 01:53:55,310
Francophiles you know they were trying

2396
01:53:59,740 --> 01:53:57,920
to emulate the French aristocracy and

2397
01:54:01,540 --> 01:53:59,750
all that and the eraser is saying that

2398
01:54:03,370 --> 01:54:01,550
that's all out of the picture would not

2399
01:54:05,590 --> 01:54:03,380
like that at all and they had the sense

2400
01:54:08,970 --> 01:54:05,600
of this again like the Slava files is

2401
01:54:11,740 --> 01:54:08,980
this deep sense of a rooted kind of

2402
01:54:13,420 --> 01:54:11,750
Russian psyche and rush or Eurasian

2403
01:54:15,310 --> 01:54:13,430
psyche and Eurasian consciousness that

2404
01:54:18,490 --> 01:54:15,320
they were once the revolution collapsed

2405
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:18,500
they were going to return and and you

2406
01:54:24,970 --> 01:54:20,090
know start this going but you know

2407
01:54:26,560 --> 01:54:24,980
they're the ETA of the end of them they

2408
01:54:30,010 --> 01:54:26,570
were very optimistic about the ETA of

2409
01:54:33,070 --> 01:54:30,020
the you know end of the revolution it

2410
01:54:35,020 --> 01:54:33,080
didn't happen let me let me jump in

2411
01:54:38,620 --> 01:54:35,030
before the break when when this didn't

2412
01:54:42,280 --> 01:54:38,630
happen was this part of some of the

2413
01:54:45,720 --> 01:54:42,290
early deaths that were a part of this

2414
01:54:49,139 --> 01:54:45,730
crowd and and suicides because the

2415
01:54:52,049 --> 01:54:49,149
collapse of Europe didn't happen

2416
01:54:56,310 --> 01:54:52,059
the Russian Revolution didn't go into

2417
01:54:57,569 --> 01:54:56,320
part 2 or part 3 what was that one yeah

2418
01:55:00,659 --> 01:54:57,579
well there was certainly certainly

2419
01:55:02,250 --> 01:55:00,669
enough among the intellectuals who

2420
01:55:02,850 --> 01:55:02,260
belong to this Eurasian this kind of

2421
01:55:04,770 --> 01:55:02,860
group

2422
01:55:06,899 --> 01:55:04,780
yeah they became completely you know

2423
01:55:08,310 --> 01:55:06,909
depressed and disenchanted and

2424
01:55:09,959 --> 01:55:08,320
disheartened and you know some of them

2425
01:55:12,149 --> 01:55:09,969
turned the zoo so someone just faded out

2426
01:55:15,919 --> 01:55:12,159
and all that and the whole idea kind of

2427
01:55:21,149 --> 01:55:15,929
just went into it was mothballed until

2428
01:55:27,709 --> 01:55:21,159
the collapse of the Soviet Union and it

2429
01:55:33,419 --> 01:55:30,089
calm kind of Russian historian a guy

2430
01:55:36,959 --> 01:55:33,429
named loved guma lev whose father by the

2431
01:55:38,369 --> 01:55:36,969
way was a one of the poets from the

2432
01:55:39,719 --> 01:55:38,379
Silver Age and he was he was

2433
01:55:42,899 --> 01:55:39,729
assassinated by the Cheka

2434
01:55:48,209 --> 01:55:42,909
of the the early Soviet secret society

2435
01:55:53,699 --> 01:55:48,219
and he he sort of repackaged is so

2436
01:55:55,259 --> 01:55:53,709
Eurasian idea one of the weirdest things

2437
01:55:58,020 --> 01:55:55,269
about so many of these people is that

2438
01:56:00,449 --> 01:55:58,030
Goodman live was spent many many years

2439
01:56:02,909 --> 01:56:00,459
in in the gulags he spent many many

2440
01:56:05,969 --> 01:56:02,919
years in these political prisons but

2441
01:56:07,560 --> 01:56:05,979
when he came out came out of them he was

2442
01:56:09,179 --> 01:56:07,570
released in the 50s but he came into

2443
01:56:13,020 --> 01:56:09,189
prominence sort of in the eighties you

2444
01:56:15,929 --> 01:56:13,030
know towards the the rise of the

2445
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:15,939
perestroika and and all of that his

2446
01:56:19,770 --> 01:56:18,010
ideas were really picked up and this was

2447
01:56:22,469 --> 01:56:19,780
like yes this is the new identity you

2448
01:56:24,299 --> 01:56:22,479
know for for Russia was this Eurasian

2449
01:56:27,540 --> 01:56:24,309
idea and he had a remarkable success for

2450
01:56:30,959 --> 01:56:27,550
years before he died and but he embraced

2451
01:56:32,909 --> 01:56:30,969
the very system that had imprisoned him

2452
01:56:34,529 --> 01:56:32,919
this is another weird thing that happens

2453
01:56:35,750 --> 01:56:34,539
you have it's kind of like the Stockholm

2454
01:56:39,509 --> 01:56:35,760
Syndrome

2455
01:56:41,609 --> 01:56:39,519
you know you you you sort of get on the

2456
01:56:43,709 --> 01:56:41,619
side of your your captor you know if

2457
01:56:45,359 --> 01:56:43,719
you're kidnapped or and this would

2458
01:56:47,669 --> 01:56:45,369
happen to gumilev so he was in prison

2459
01:56:48,869 --> 01:56:47,679
for there's so many different charges

2460
01:56:51,419 --> 01:56:48,879
brought up against him at different

2461
01:56:54,989 --> 01:56:51,429
times and he was finally released in the

2462
01:56:56,729 --> 01:56:54,999
50s after Stalin died and there was what

2463
01:56:59,879 --> 01:56:56,739
they call the Khrushchev thaw you know

2464
01:57:01,649 --> 01:56:59,889
there was a kind of frozen block of

2465
01:57:03,410 --> 01:57:01,659
Russian society thought a bit after

2466
01:57:06,240 --> 01:57:03,420
Stalin died and there

2467
01:57:08,339 --> 01:57:06,250
loosening and the kind of kind of early

2468
01:57:11,959 --> 01:57:08,349
perestroika sort of thing and then with

2469
01:57:14,189 --> 01:57:11,969
Brezhnev that-that'll little collapsed

2470
01:57:16,140 --> 01:57:14,199
there's gonna say Goomba that sort of

2471
01:57:19,430 --> 01:57:16,150
repackages whole Eurasian idea and that

2472
01:57:21,919 --> 01:57:19,440
he became he was like became a celebrity

2473
01:57:25,890 --> 01:57:21,929
anthropologist a celebrity sort of

2474
01:57:27,770 --> 01:57:25,900
historian and you know stamps his honor

2475
01:57:31,020 --> 01:57:27,780
and schools made in his honor and his

2476
01:57:35,640 --> 01:57:31,030
ideas were just basically established as

2477
01:57:37,140 --> 01:57:35,650
fact for Russian science he's not known

2478
01:57:39,180 --> 01:57:37,150
in the West but in Russia he's he's like

2479
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:39,190
one of the most famous people around

2480
01:57:44,339 --> 01:57:42,610
yeah and when we discuss the book is

2481
01:57:46,799 --> 01:57:44,349
important because not only what the

2482
01:57:49,530 --> 01:57:46,809
Silver Age is but when we talk about

2483
01:57:51,780 --> 01:57:49,540
things like you're Asian most people

2484
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:51,790
think that it's a modern word it's a

2485
01:57:58,500 --> 01:57:54,610
modern term it's a modern concept that

2486
01:58:03,149 --> 01:57:58,510
the when we talk about stuff today like

2487
01:58:07,850 --> 01:58:03,159
that that it goes back to 1920 1910 and

2488
01:58:10,649 --> 01:58:07,860
these concepts may have been squashed

2489
01:58:15,660 --> 01:58:10,659
over the last 70 years but here we are

2490
01:58:18,359 --> 01:58:15,670
in 2020 Eurasian is real Russia is real

2491
01:58:19,760 --> 01:58:18,369
and are all of these concepts now from

2492
01:58:23,310 --> 01:58:19,770
the past

2493
01:58:27,330 --> 01:58:23,320
now's you know it didn't happen in in

2494
01:58:30,959 --> 01:58:27,340
1920 but things may happen in 2020 right

2495
01:58:33,479 --> 01:58:30,969
or absolutely I mean if again if you if

2496
01:58:36,180 --> 01:58:33,489
you are aware of Putin speeches over the

2497
01:58:40,370 --> 01:58:36,190
last you know decade or so he drops he

2498
01:58:43,470 --> 01:58:40,380
drops Eurasia all the time and there's

2499
01:58:45,060 --> 01:58:43,480
someone I write about a bit in holy

2500
01:58:47,580 --> 01:58:45,070
Russia but I write about her more in the

2501
01:58:50,040 --> 01:58:47,590
previous book dark snow rising it's a

2502
01:58:53,970 --> 01:58:50,050
very strange character named Alexander

2503
01:58:56,069 --> 01:58:53,980
Dugan who is one of the weirdest kind of

2504
01:59:01,459 --> 01:58:56,079
trajectories and in modern or postmodern

2505
01:59:04,709 --> 01:59:01,469
politics PPP surfaces well he comes into

2506
01:59:08,370 --> 01:59:04,719
history first as a anti-soviet Punk in

2507
01:59:14,430 --> 01:59:08,380
the 1980s and through the strangest kind

2508
01:59:15,459 --> 01:59:14,440
of series of metamorphosis now or at

2509
01:59:17,290 --> 01:59:15,469
least

2510
01:59:19,839 --> 01:59:17,300
last what I've heard of him he was

2511
01:59:23,439 --> 01:59:19,849
lecturing on geopolitics to the general

2512
01:59:25,060 --> 01:59:23,449
staff at the Kremlin but he Pepe he's

2513
01:59:27,219 --> 01:59:25,070
someone who picked up on this eurasian

2514
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:27,229
idea as well and he has this vicious

2515
01:59:32,140 --> 01:59:29,690
talk about apocalyptic history he has

2516
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:32,150
this vision of a final knock-down

2517
01:59:36,939 --> 01:59:34,610
drag-out battle between what he calls

2518
01:59:41,469 --> 01:59:36,949
the Atlanta cysts which are the Western

2519
01:59:44,140 --> 01:59:41,479
maritime countries the u.s. us or UK and

2520
01:59:46,060 --> 01:59:44,150
what he calls Eurasia which is the

2521
01:59:50,290 --> 01:59:46,070
mother of all continents which is the

2522
01:59:52,540 --> 01:59:50,300
this vast landmass that he believes as I

2523
01:59:54,910 --> 01:59:52,550
said earlier that it's not a it's not

2524
01:59:57,100 --> 01:59:54,920
rush Russia is not just become a new

2525
01:59:58,979 --> 01:59:57,110
nation and incidentally this is the

2526
02:00:01,299 --> 01:59:58,989
first time in Russia is not an empire

2527
02:00:03,069 --> 02:00:01,309
throughout its history it's been an

2528
02:00:05,080 --> 02:00:03,079
empire all the time except say for the

2529
02:00:07,029 --> 02:00:05,090
time the centuries when it was under the

2530
02:00:09,009 --> 02:00:07,039
Mongol yoke when it was you know

2531
02:00:10,899 --> 02:00:09,019
controlled by the Tartars but it's never

2532
02:00:13,359 --> 02:00:10,909
just been a country like a regular just

2533
02:00:15,430 --> 02:00:13,369
plain old country you know like you sort

2534
02:00:17,890 --> 02:00:15,440
of don't have the Dutch Empire you know

2535
02:00:21,819 --> 02:00:17,900
we don't have that's right this right

2536
02:00:23,229 --> 02:00:21,829
now is the Russian Empire and Putin has

2537
02:00:24,580 --> 02:00:23,239
picked up on this notion of Eurasia

2538
02:00:28,560 --> 02:00:24,590
again it's like you're right it's not a

2539
02:00:31,359 --> 02:00:28,570
new country we're a new civilization a

2540
02:00:33,640 --> 02:00:31,369
new rising civilization and the 21st

2541
02:00:35,020 --> 02:00:33,650
century is our century Gary I need to

2542
02:00:38,469 --> 02:00:35,030
take a break right here we're gonna do

2543
02:00:40,479 --> 02:00:38,479
that and I didn't bring up the decline

2544
02:00:42,910 --> 02:00:40,489
of the Western civilization and I love

2545
02:00:48,910 --> 02:00:42,920
peace fear you know were you in the

2546
02:00:51,069 --> 02:00:48,920
first movie New York you know so we won

2547
02:00:53,290 --> 02:00:51,079
in the UK stuff we're in this film

2548
02:00:55,450 --> 02:00:53,300
called blank generation where it's a

2549
02:00:57,729 --> 02:00:55,460
great you know document at the time but

2550
02:00:58,989 --> 02:00:57,739
it's the soundtrack is not the same as

2551
02:01:01,359 --> 02:00:58,999
what the people are playing on the

2552
02:01:04,910 --> 02:01:01,369
screen hey let's take our break right

2553
02:01:10,740 --> 02:01:08,189
this is kera digital broadcasting

2554
02:01:13,680 --> 02:01:10,750
station Salt Lake City Utah

2555
02:01:15,689 --> 02:01:13,690
Van Buren Arkansas why is it we're not

2556
02:01:16,770 --> 02:01:15,699
very good with our health regiment until

2557
02:01:18,630 --> 02:01:16,780
it's too late

2558
02:01:20,459 --> 02:01:18,640
we don't put oil in the car until the

2559
02:01:23,250 --> 02:01:20,469
engine blows up when the body's out of

2560
02:01:24,419 --> 02:01:23,260
balance your health is not so good give

2561
02:01:27,260 --> 02:01:24,429
your body some love

2562
02:01:29,970 --> 02:01:27,270
log on to get the t.com that's get the

2563
02:01:32,189 --> 02:01:29,980
t.com try our life change tea which

2564
02:01:34,740 --> 02:01:32,199
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2565
02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:34,750
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2566
02:01:38,070 --> 02:01:36,010
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2567
02:01:40,260 --> 02:01:38,080
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2568
02:01:42,689 --> 02:01:40,270
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2569
02:01:46,080 --> 02:01:42,699
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2570
02:01:48,540 --> 02:01:46,090
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2571
02:01:51,330 --> 02:01:48,550
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2572
02:01:53,729 --> 02:01:51,340
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2573
02:01:55,680 --> 02:01:53,739
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2574
02:01:58,590 --> 02:01:55,690
for short helpful health tips go to

2575
02:02:03,870 --> 02:01:58,600
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2576
02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:03,880
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2577
02:02:09,660 --> 02:02:07,210
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2578
02:02:12,030 --> 02:02:09,670
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2579
02:02:16,919 --> 02:02:12,040
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2580
02:02:22,350 --> 02:02:16,929
the t.com your current news and trending

2581
02:02:24,840 --> 02:02:22,360
topics radio.com this is Jimmy Church of

2582
02:02:27,959 --> 02:02:24,850
fade to black and I only drink

2583
02:02:30,479 --> 02:02:27,969
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2584
02:02:33,330 --> 02:02:30,489
Moon just click on the River Moon coffee

2585
02:02:37,560 --> 02:02:33,340
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2586
02:02:40,530 --> 02:02:37,570
code f2b blend so are you tired of being

2587
02:02:42,570 --> 02:02:40,540
tired well then it's time to get the tea

2588
02:02:45,149 --> 02:02:42,580
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2589
02:02:46,950 --> 02:02:45,159
this all-natural all organic tea I've

2590
02:02:48,300 --> 02:02:46,960
been drinking that has had great results

2591
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:48,310
for over 20 years

2592
02:02:53,070 --> 02:02:51,250
it's called life changed tea and it's

2593
02:02:55,649 --> 02:02:53,080
specially formulated to help detoxify

2594
02:02:58,380 --> 02:02:55,659
and cleanse your kidneys liver colon and

2595
02:02:59,760 --> 02:02:58,390
blood all at once the colon is one of

2596
02:03:02,520 --> 02:02:59,770
the most ignored organs in the human

2597
02:03:04,350 --> 02:03:02,530
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2598
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:04,360
from the body the less time that way

2599
02:03:08,310 --> 02:03:06,370
sits in our intestines spreading toxins

2600
02:03:10,229 --> 02:03:08,320
to our bloodstream this tea helps

2601
02:03:12,450 --> 02:03:10,239
cleanse chemicals caused by outside

2602
02:03:15,149 --> 02:03:12,460
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2603
02:03:16,540 --> 02:03:15,159
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2604
02:03:18,610 --> 02:03:16,550
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2605
02:03:20,590 --> 02:03:18,620
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2606
02:03:23,170 --> 02:03:20,600
experience clearer healthier younger

2607
02:03:25,000 --> 02:03:23,180
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2608
02:03:26,320 --> 02:03:25,010
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2609
02:03:29,080 --> 02:03:26,330
tired of being tired

2610
02:03:29,890 --> 02:03:29,090
get the life changed tea at get the tea

2611
02:03:34,500 --> 02:03:29,900
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2612
02:03:36,670 --> 02:03:34,510
you'll be glad you did

2613
02:03:38,380 --> 02:03:36,680
did you know that when you're on the

2614
02:03:40,870 --> 02:03:38,390
road with limited data or Wi-Fi

2615
02:03:42,790 --> 02:03:40,880
available you can still listen to every

2616
02:03:45,580 --> 02:03:42,800
minute of fade to black by just calling

2617
02:03:48,610 --> 02:03:45,590
six oh five five six two four four eight

2618
02:03:51,100 --> 02:03:48,620
two no smartphone app or internet needed

2619
02:03:53,710 --> 02:03:51,110
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2620
02:03:56,500 --> 02:03:53,720
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2621
02:03:58,660 --> 02:03:56,510
call six oh five five six two four four

2622
02:04:01,690 --> 02:03:58,670
eight two you can listen to me Jimmy

2623
02:04:20,890 --> 02:04:01,700
Church on any phone anytime anywhere

2624
02:04:24,310 --> 02:04:20,900
Gobekli Tepe I'm serious I couldn't stay

2625
02:04:31,400 --> 02:04:24,320
stable without Pole mr. Brooks why fade

2626
02:04:35,400 --> 02:04:33,480
this is fade to black

2627
02:04:39,090 --> 02:04:35,410
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

2628
02:04:53,810 --> 02:04:39,100
radio network and kgr a the global radio

2629
02:04:58,690 --> 02:04:56,120
welcome back fade to black our guest

2630
02:05:01,490 --> 02:04:58,700
tonight Gary Lachman live from the UK

2631
02:05:03,860 --> 02:05:01,500
discuss his new book it is called the

2632
02:05:06,230 --> 02:05:03,870
return of holy Russia apocalyptic

2633
02:05:08,720 --> 02:05:06,240
history mystical awakening and the

2634
02:05:12,920 --> 02:05:08,730
struggle for the soul of the world and

2635
02:05:17,510 --> 02:05:12,930
now this has been a great discussion and

2636
02:05:23,060 --> 02:05:17,520
it leads us now to today Gary and I

2637
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:23,070
would say that Putin is very aware of

2638
02:05:30,590 --> 02:05:26,970
his image and that as a country Russia

2639
02:05:32,810 --> 02:05:30,600
and those that support him all the way

2640
02:05:36,290 --> 02:05:32,820
over here to the United States I'd say

2641
02:05:38,930 --> 02:05:36,300
his image is pretty good well he just

2642
02:05:42,260 --> 02:05:38,940
you know he just put himself in the

2643
02:05:44,390 --> 02:05:42,270
driver's seat for another six years so

2644
02:05:46,670 --> 02:05:44,400
yeah I mean apparently the people I mean

2645
02:05:48,350 --> 02:05:46,680
what I understand I mean I'm not I don't

2646
02:05:51,530 --> 02:05:48,360
have too much contact with too many

2647
02:05:53,090 --> 02:05:51,540
Russians but some that I have been in

2648
02:05:54,920 --> 02:05:53,100
touch with and talked to they say yes

2649
02:05:56,600 --> 02:05:54,930
you know we don't have you know maybe

2650
02:05:59,270 --> 02:05:56,610
the same kind of civil liberties in the

2651
02:06:00,290 --> 02:05:59,280
same way and blah blah blah but we've

2652
02:06:03,500 --> 02:06:00,300
never had it so good

2653
02:06:05,300 --> 02:06:03,510
you know we've it's the standard of

2654
02:06:07,880 --> 02:06:05,310
living is much better here than it's

2655
02:06:09,860 --> 02:06:07,890
ever been and actually you know we like

2656
02:06:12,530 --> 02:06:09,870
Putin and I think the other thing too is

2657
02:06:14,330 --> 02:06:12,540
that after you know again if you the

2658
02:06:16,190 --> 02:06:14,340
country just collapsed you know the

2659
02:06:19,970 --> 02:06:16,200
country collapsed it was on its knees in

2660
02:06:22,190 --> 02:06:19,980
the late 90s and what usually happens

2661
02:06:24,980 --> 02:06:22,200
something like that happens a strongman

2662
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:24,990
appears you know to bring order back and

2663
02:06:30,020 --> 02:06:27,690
you know whatever you may think of his

2664
02:06:31,700 --> 02:06:30,030
tactics or his motives and all that he

2665
02:06:33,320 --> 02:06:31,710
certainly seems to have done that of

2666
02:06:37,010 --> 02:06:33,330
course at the same time there's a lot of

2667
02:06:40,280 --> 02:06:37,020
opposition to him and there's a lot of

2668
02:06:44,240 --> 02:06:40,290
people who want the want the Western you

2669
02:06:46,820 --> 02:06:44,250
know way of life they it's this idea

2670
02:06:50,990 --> 02:06:46,830
that it didn't really get a chance you

2671
02:06:52,610 --> 02:06:51,000
know the the sort of oligarchs and you

2672
02:06:55,700 --> 02:06:52,620
know the political gangsters moved in

2673
02:06:57,950 --> 02:06:55,710
too quickly and and took over so the you

2674
02:07:00,170 --> 02:06:57,960
know the Western democratic free-market

2675
02:07:01,610 --> 02:07:00,180
approach didn't have time to take root

2676
02:07:03,710 --> 02:07:01,620
so I mean there's always been an

2677
02:07:07,380 --> 02:07:03,720
opposition in Russia there's oh there's

2678
02:07:09,450 --> 02:07:07,390
there's been a strain of a westernized

2679
02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:09,460
let's say over more Western a more

2680
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:12,610
liberal kind of approach even back in in

2681
02:07:20,790 --> 02:07:17,050
its ancient history Moscow you know came

2682
02:07:23,580 --> 02:07:20,800
to prominence but an earlier city town

2683
02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:23,590
Novgorod had a history of being more

2684
02:07:30,630 --> 02:07:25,810
liberal you know western-style

2685
02:07:32,490 --> 02:07:30,640
democratic kind of country and it it

2686
02:07:35,760 --> 02:07:32,500
came to a certain prominence during the

2687
02:07:39,780 --> 02:07:35,770
reign of Ivan the Terrible and he

2688
02:07:42,090 --> 02:07:39,790
actually decimated it laughing I

2689
02:07:46,380 --> 02:07:42,100
shouldn't but now he literally destroyed

2690
02:07:48,360 --> 02:07:46,390
the city and he he hauled it in and the

2691
02:07:49,620 --> 02:07:48,370
story is that he you know just basically

2692
02:07:51,720 --> 02:07:49,630
slaughtered something like forty

2693
02:07:55,020 --> 02:07:51,730
thousand people there because of some

2694
02:07:57,150 --> 02:07:55,030
slight so I just bring it in that yeah

2695
02:07:59,790 --> 02:07:57,160
Putin's got a good he's got a good image

2696
02:08:02,940 --> 02:07:59,800
he's got a good rep he knows how to do

2697
02:08:07,160 --> 02:08:02,950
his PR in this earlier book Dark Star

2698
02:08:11,460 --> 02:08:07,170
rising I have a chapter about Putin's

2699
02:08:16,100 --> 02:08:11,470
earlier sort of reign in the 2000s and

2700
02:08:20,040 --> 02:08:16,110
into sort of the mid 2000 teens when his

2701
02:08:22,350 --> 02:08:20,050
spin-doctor his PR man guy named lettuce

2702
02:08:24,270 --> 02:08:22,360
lobster Cove he was in control of this

2703
02:08:26,330 --> 02:08:24,280
kind of virtual reality Russia because

2704
02:08:31,050 --> 02:08:26,340
he had complete control over the media

2705
02:08:33,570 --> 02:08:31,060
and so news and television programs and

2706
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:33,580
magazines and all that became this kind

2707
02:08:39,600 --> 02:08:37,050
of virtual reality that Surkov was

2708
02:08:41,940 --> 02:08:39,610
inventing to keep the Russian populace

2709
02:08:45,000 --> 02:08:41,950
occupied and happy was the kind of

2710
02:08:51,300 --> 02:08:45,010
technological burden surfaces and he

2711
02:08:55,770 --> 02:08:51,310
swims topless with Tigers he's got my

2712
02:08:59,610 --> 02:08:55,780
vote and there's as we continue this

2713
02:09:02,820 --> 02:08:59,620
where we are today I want to go back

2714
02:09:05,460 --> 02:09:02,830
just a little bit because it involves

2715
02:09:09,180 --> 02:09:05,470
today and that is things like the

2716
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:09,190
Illuminati and the Freemasons and and

2717
02:09:15,420 --> 02:09:12,010
and what was happening back then does

2718
02:09:17,670 --> 02:09:15,430
that continue through today as well well

2719
02:09:20,520 --> 02:09:17,680
it could very well I'm not that

2720
02:09:21,060 --> 02:09:20,530
well-versed in contemporary Freemasonry

2721
02:09:25,560 --> 02:09:21,070
in Russia

2722
02:09:28,490 --> 02:09:25,570
certainly in the past in in the late

2723
02:09:31,399 --> 02:09:28,500
18th in the early 19th century

2724
02:09:35,220 --> 02:09:31,409
Freemasonry was very very important in

2725
02:09:41,330 --> 02:09:35,230
Russian society and this is at a time

2726
02:09:46,530 --> 02:09:41,340
when the church seemed to have lost its

2727
02:09:50,819 --> 02:09:46,540
kind of spiritual seriousness it seemed

2728
02:09:53,310 --> 02:09:50,829
to have lost the kind of what do you

2729
02:09:57,350 --> 02:09:53,320
want to call it kind of gravitas that

2730
02:09:59,310 --> 02:09:57,360
that had had for such a long time and

2731
02:10:01,560 --> 02:09:59,320
people that was spiritually minded

2732
02:10:03,479 --> 02:10:01,570
seriously minded they could no longer

2733
02:10:05,339 --> 02:10:03,489
find a kind of home in the church and

2734
02:10:08,810 --> 02:10:05,349
then they were also very much against

2735
02:10:13,859 --> 02:10:11,370
kind of customs and culture that was in

2736
02:10:14,459 --> 02:10:13,869
in in the Russian Court so Catherine the

2737
02:10:17,220 --> 02:10:14,469
Great

2738
02:10:20,609 --> 02:10:17,230
Freemasonry rose in Russia around her

2739
02:10:24,120 --> 02:10:20,619
time and she initially was interested in

2740
02:10:26,189 --> 02:10:24,130
it but then she became she was a reader

2741
02:10:28,770 --> 02:10:26,199
of Voltaire and the French fill

2742
02:10:31,050 --> 02:10:28,780
ourselves who were you know atheist very

2743
02:10:32,760 --> 02:10:31,060
anti religion and he mystical of that

2744
02:10:35,069 --> 02:10:32,770
sort and then she turned against it and

2745
02:10:39,270 --> 02:10:35,079
she turned against it many ways because

2746
02:10:41,970 --> 02:10:39,280
of the Masonic offshoot you mentioned

2747
02:10:43,770 --> 02:10:41,980
the Illuminati and I I know you know the

2748
02:10:45,149 --> 02:10:43,780
loominatee today you know God if you if

2749
02:10:46,410 --> 02:10:45,159
you read stuff that you see online

2750
02:10:48,510 --> 02:10:46,420
I'm practically every buddies in the

2751
02:10:52,740 --> 02:10:48,520
Illuminati mean I hi I may very well be

2752
02:10:56,540 --> 02:10:52,750
and I I think you are but the actual

2753
02:11:01,589 --> 02:10:56,550
historical Illuminati is in the 1780s

2754
02:11:03,839 --> 02:11:01,599
it was Adam Weiss helped who was a

2755
02:11:06,890 --> 02:11:03,849
radical political thinker in Bavaria

2756
02:11:10,859 --> 02:11:06,900
which is you know southern Germany and

2757
02:11:12,780 --> 02:11:10,869
he the funny thing about the historical

2758
02:11:16,439 --> 02:11:12,790
Illuminati is that they really weren't

2759
02:11:21,089 --> 02:11:16,449
mystical at all they were really a

2760
02:11:23,339 --> 02:11:21,099
radical you know anti anti monarchy you

2761
02:11:28,470 --> 02:11:23,349
know movement that had infiltrated the

2762
02:11:31,319 --> 02:11:28,480
larger Masonic organizations and I

2763
02:11:33,149 --> 02:11:31,329
stopped if there was kind of a wolf in

2764
02:11:35,890 --> 02:11:33,159
sheep's clothing because he you know

2765
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:35,900
created this

2766
02:11:41,110 --> 02:11:39,290
kind of persona of the Illuminati is

2767
02:11:46,210 --> 02:11:41,120
being a higher more mystical kind of

2768
02:11:48,280 --> 02:11:46,220
esoteric branch or level or Freemasonry

2769
02:11:50,860 --> 02:11:48,290
but actually had this plan to sort of

2770
02:11:53,650 --> 02:11:50,870
undermine you know the monarchy and all

2771
02:11:56,350 --> 02:11:53,660
of that and you know sort of create a

2772
02:11:58,240 --> 02:11:56,360
kind of liberal progressive society in

2773
02:12:00,970 --> 02:11:58,250
Europe and when that word got out about

2774
02:12:03,900 --> 02:12:00,980
this the Bavarian government you know

2775
02:12:05,710 --> 02:12:03,910
cracked down on the Illuminati and then

2776
02:12:07,900 --> 02:12:05,720
governments throughout Europe did the

2777
02:12:09,760 --> 02:12:07,910
same with Masonic groups and so is that

2778
02:12:11,620 --> 02:12:09,770
that sort of happened happened in Russia

2779
02:12:13,360 --> 02:12:11,630
but there was a great I mean his

2780
02:12:16,890 --> 02:12:13,370
wonderful stories the mantle of ASCII

2781
02:12:19,180 --> 02:12:16,900
tells about her great-grandfather and

2782
02:12:21,640 --> 02:12:19,190
she says that when she was a young girl

2783
02:12:24,880 --> 02:12:21,650
or a teenager she discovered his occult

2784
02:12:27,730 --> 02:12:24,890
library and this is when she first sort

2785
02:12:29,260 --> 02:12:27,740
of started on her wrote her own road in

2786
02:12:31,390 --> 02:12:29,270
search of the unknown and the miraculous

2787
02:12:34,210 --> 02:12:31,400
but she talks about coming for some

2788
02:12:36,460 --> 02:12:34,220
document that her great-grandfather who

2789
02:12:39,940 --> 02:12:36,470
was part of this sort of Rosicrucian

2790
02:12:41,470 --> 02:12:39,950
Masonic strain that was very popular and

2791
02:12:42,490 --> 02:12:41,480
influential in Russia at the time and

2792
02:12:45,040 --> 02:12:42,500
they had this whole plan for the

2793
02:12:48,250 --> 02:12:45,050
reconstruction of Europe so I mean yeah

2794
02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:48,260
there certainly was some sense that you

2795
02:12:53,170 --> 02:12:51,290
know the Masons at this time if not just

2796
02:12:55,240 --> 02:12:53,180
the Illuminati but sort of Freemasonry

2797
02:12:57,070 --> 02:12:55,250
itself had this this sense of some kind

2798
02:12:58,870 --> 02:12:57,080
of political reconstruction and I

2799
02:13:00,490 --> 02:12:58,880
mentioned the Rosicrucians and if you

2800
02:13:02,850 --> 02:13:00,500
know about the Rosicrucian this was this

2801
02:13:07,120 --> 02:13:02,860
secret society that started up in the

2802
02:13:10,060 --> 02:13:07,130
early 1600s in Germany and they too had

2803
02:13:12,520 --> 02:13:10,070
this notion of this grand reconstruction

2804
02:13:17,140 --> 02:13:12,530
of Europe they were a friend of mine

2805
02:13:20,170 --> 02:13:17,150
calls them the esoteric wing of the

2806
02:13:22,090 --> 02:13:20,180
Protestant revolution because we're

2807
02:13:24,400 --> 02:13:22,100
secretions combine sort of hermetic

2808
02:13:26,410 --> 02:13:24,410
science with the rising you know what we

2809
02:13:27,580 --> 02:13:26,420
know is science they didn't see them as

2810
02:13:29,350 --> 02:13:27,590
antithetical they saw them as

2811
02:13:30,880 --> 02:13:29,360
complementary and they wanted to sort of

2812
02:13:32,650 --> 02:13:30,890
bring the two together much as we were

2813
02:13:35,770 --> 02:13:32,660
talking about you know different ways

2814
02:13:37,150 --> 02:13:35,780
earlier earlier and what they wanted to

2815
02:13:39,430 --> 02:13:37,160
do that politically and socially was

2816
02:13:43,570 --> 02:13:39,440
sort of throw up the hasp ergs you know

2817
02:13:45,940 --> 02:13:43,580
control of the Habsburg dynasty was you

2818
02:13:48,430 --> 02:13:45,950
know this very conservative austere

2819
02:13:51,729 --> 02:13:48,440
Roman Catholic and they were

2820
02:13:54,880 --> 02:13:51,739
you know holding society down then and

2821
02:13:57,370 --> 02:13:54,890
the Rosicrucians wanted to overthrow

2822
02:14:01,209 --> 02:13:57,380
that and one of the things they promoted

2823
02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:01,219
was universal education and something

2824
02:14:05,200 --> 02:14:02,690
that many people in the West don't know

2825
02:14:08,070 --> 02:14:05,210
one of the people that's associated with

2826
02:14:12,150 --> 02:14:08,080
the Rosicrucian was a felony on Comenius

2827
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:12,160
who's FISA he's a well-known figure in

2828
02:14:17,050 --> 02:14:15,050
sort of Eastern Europe in the Czech

2829
02:14:18,610 --> 02:14:17,060
Republic in and places like that

2830
02:14:22,590 --> 02:14:18,620
and he's known as the father of modern

2831
02:14:25,330 --> 02:14:22,600
education because he worked to promote

2832
02:14:27,100 --> 02:14:25,340
kind of universal education but what we

2833
02:14:29,200 --> 02:14:27,110
take for granted today you know this was

2834
02:14:30,490 --> 02:14:29,210
something that the first Christian idea

2835
02:14:33,450 --> 02:14:30,500
was that knowledge should be should be

2836
02:14:36,310 --> 02:14:33,460
shared it should you know spread out and

2837
02:14:37,900 --> 02:14:36,320
instead of each you know instead of it

2838
02:14:40,570 --> 02:14:37,910
being something that's hoarded and and

2839
02:14:41,860 --> 02:14:40,580
again controlled by one sort of segment

2840
02:14:44,650 --> 02:14:41,870
of society is something that should be

2841
02:14:47,950 --> 02:14:44,660
shared by all I've never met a

2842
02:14:51,070 --> 02:14:47,960
Rosicrucian well nobody did apparently

2843
02:14:53,820 --> 02:14:51,080
here's the thing yeah this is the story

2844
02:14:57,459 --> 02:14:53,830
they the famously they nailed these

2845
02:15:00,850 --> 02:14:57,469
manifestos put them up in this town

2846
02:15:02,560 --> 02:15:00,860
castle in Germany announcing the arrival

2847
02:15:05,020 --> 02:15:02,570
of the Rosicrucians and then asking

2848
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:05,030
people to join them and then when people

2849
02:15:09,100 --> 02:15:07,730
tried to join them they couldn't find

2850
02:15:13,390 --> 02:15:09,110
them in they couldn't find them I've

2851
02:15:14,860 --> 02:15:13,400
never met one the funny thing is is that

2852
02:15:16,689 --> 02:15:14,870
the people who wanted to join the

2853
02:15:18,220 --> 02:15:16,699
Rosicrucians became the Rosicrucians

2854
02:15:19,990 --> 02:15:18,230
themselves so it was kind of

2855
02:15:23,080 --> 02:15:20,000
self-fulfilling prophecy so it's sort of

2856
02:15:25,300 --> 02:15:23,090
a secret society conspiracy that didn't

2857
02:15:26,770 --> 02:15:25,310
exist until the people who read about it

2858
02:15:29,830 --> 02:15:26,780
made it made it happen

2859
02:15:32,950 --> 02:15:29,840
now with the fall of the Soviet Union in

2860
02:15:36,939 --> 02:15:32,960
in 1991 one of the first things that

2861
02:15:39,280 --> 02:15:36,949
happened were all of those churches were

2862
02:15:42,820 --> 02:15:39,290
unsheltered right now you could go to

2863
02:15:45,010 --> 02:15:42,830
church on Saturday and Sunday absolutely

2864
02:15:49,510 --> 02:15:45,020
and church has become very very popular

2865
02:15:52,240 --> 02:15:49,520
again and many places that were

2866
02:15:55,720 --> 02:15:52,250
associated with the collapse of the

2867
02:15:57,760 --> 02:15:55,730
Romanovs have become kind of pilgrimage

2868
02:16:00,009 --> 02:15:57,770
sites now I mean so the place where they

2869
02:16:02,979 --> 02:16:00,019
were assassinated

2870
02:16:04,179 --> 02:16:02,989
in a Camry Nidal if I'm pronouncing it

2871
02:16:06,839 --> 02:16:04,189
correctly

2872
02:16:09,009 --> 02:16:06,849
we're Nicolas in Alexandria and and

2873
02:16:10,839 --> 02:16:09,019
anastacio although there's a story that

2874
02:16:12,669 --> 02:16:10,849
she escaped where they were they were

2875
02:16:14,799 --> 02:16:12,679
killed they were murdered this has

2876
02:16:17,049 --> 02:16:14,809
become a kind of site of holy pilgrimage

2877
02:16:18,819 --> 02:16:17,059
now I don't know if you saw the

2878
02:16:22,479 --> 02:16:18,829
documentary series that came out last

2879
02:16:27,579 --> 02:16:22,489
year on it but it was really well done

2880
02:16:28,989 --> 02:16:27,589
and that that last day of the family and

2881
02:16:33,839 --> 02:16:28,999
the way that that you know because they

2882
02:16:37,299 --> 02:16:33,849
were imprisoned up until that point but

2883
02:16:40,660 --> 02:16:37,309
that that is something that a culture a

2884
02:16:43,990 --> 02:16:40,670
society cannot be proud of and it

2885
02:16:47,320 --> 02:16:44,000
certainly has a different feeling today

2886
02:16:51,939 --> 02:16:47,330
for for Russia and all of you know for

2887
02:16:55,149 --> 02:16:51,949
Russians then you know how hard is it

2888
02:16:57,309 --> 02:16:55,159
for them to talk about and it admit to

2889
02:17:00,820 --> 02:16:57,319
being a part of it's it's just it was a

2890
02:17:03,429 --> 02:17:00,830
tragic tragic event well I mean and it's

2891
02:17:10,439 --> 02:17:03,439
very different if you you know with the

2892
02:17:15,820 --> 02:17:14,019
Louie and Marie you don't I mean yeah

2893
02:17:17,740 --> 02:17:15,830
there's been a strain and French culture

2894
02:17:18,879 --> 02:17:17,750
sort of bring back the monarchy and all

2895
02:17:22,629 --> 02:17:18,889
that kind of thing but they are very

2896
02:17:25,750 --> 02:17:22,639
much you know the weird fringe on the

2897
02:17:27,609 --> 02:17:25,760
margins and but you don't have this

2898
02:17:29,649 --> 02:17:27,619
sense as you say this kind of tragedy or

2899
02:17:31,149 --> 02:17:29,659
the sense of somehow how can we absorb

2900
02:17:32,950 --> 02:17:31,159
this it's like the French kind of still

2901
02:17:34,599 --> 02:17:32,960
celebrate that I mean and that that's

2902
02:17:36,700 --> 02:17:34,609
kind of the cutoff point that's sort of

2903
02:17:37,750 --> 02:17:36,710
at least politically and socially when

2904
02:17:39,879 --> 02:17:37,760
it's supposed to be that's the beginning

2905
02:17:41,500 --> 02:17:39,889
of the modern age you know and and and

2906
02:17:42,969 --> 02:17:41,510
we talked about the Illuminati and

2907
02:17:45,129 --> 02:17:42,979
there's so many stories about how the

2908
02:17:47,859 --> 02:17:45,139
Illuminati were responsible for the the

2909
02:17:50,439 --> 02:17:47,869
French Revolution and this was why one

2910
02:17:53,259 --> 02:17:50,449
of the reasons why Freemasonry post the

2911
02:17:55,629 --> 02:17:53,269
French Revolution had acquired this this

2912
02:17:58,629 --> 02:17:55,639
kind of reputation as being in a

2913
02:18:01,859 --> 02:17:58,639
radically political and all that but now

2914
02:18:05,469 --> 02:18:01,869
in Russia today they're martyrs you know

2915
02:18:08,439 --> 02:18:05,479
many of the figures that at the time of

2916
02:18:10,919 --> 02:18:08,449
the Revolution were murdered and many of

2917
02:18:12,400 --> 02:18:10,929
the people were behind it you know they

2918
02:18:15,490 --> 02:18:12,410
were all

2919
02:18:17,919 --> 02:18:15,500
behind being able to get rid of these

2920
02:18:20,410 --> 02:18:17,929
people it was sort of the sadly the

2921
02:18:23,950 --> 02:18:20,420
general sort of revolt of the have-nots

2922
02:18:26,080 --> 02:18:23,960
against the haves but you know today it

2923
02:18:27,640 --> 02:18:26,090
is a turnaround and so many of the

2924
02:18:29,050 --> 02:18:27,650
people who were murdered in the early

2925
02:18:32,290 --> 02:18:29,060
days of revolution are seen as martyrs

2926
02:18:36,370 --> 02:18:32,300
now now where are we with that like I

2927
02:18:37,750 --> 02:18:36,380
said in in in 1991 with the collapse of

2928
02:18:41,680 --> 02:18:37,760
the Soviet Union

2929
02:18:45,610 --> 02:18:41,690
now religion is back into society what

2930
02:18:50,470 --> 02:18:45,620
about the Silver Age side of things is

2931
02:18:53,919 --> 02:18:50,480
this is this also is this going to

2932
02:18:56,740 --> 02:18:53,929
continue as a duality type of thing is

2933
02:18:58,959 --> 02:18:56,750
that where we are in 2020

2934
02:19:02,830 --> 02:18:58,969
what do you mean in Russia itself yes

2935
02:19:06,010 --> 02:19:02,840
yes well I mean it's all come back I

2936
02:19:09,490 --> 02:19:06,020
mean all of that has been embraced as

2937
02:19:13,000 --> 02:19:09,500
this this remarkable time in Russian

2938
02:19:16,419 --> 02:19:13,010
history in in cultural history that was

2939
02:19:18,610 --> 02:19:16,429
lost and now you know now it's now it's

2940
02:19:20,560 --> 02:19:18,620
come back and now it's available so that

2941
02:19:22,720 --> 02:19:20,570
has been you know for like the last 30

2942
02:19:27,840 --> 02:19:22,730
years now so it's not it's not that new

2943
02:19:30,970 --> 02:19:27,850
but there was a incredible flood of

2944
02:19:33,310 --> 02:19:30,980
banned literature that was back suddenly

2945
02:19:35,110 --> 02:19:33,320
back you know on the market and my

2946
02:19:36,610 --> 02:19:35,120
understanding and in Russia you know

2947
02:19:39,280 --> 02:19:36,620
when they do a print run of a book they

2948
02:19:40,690 --> 02:19:39,290
do lots and lots of copies so apparently

2949
02:19:43,360 --> 02:19:40,700
you know hundreds of thousands of copies

2950
02:19:45,610 --> 02:19:43,370
of things like livanski or Gurdjieff who

2951
02:19:47,800 --> 02:19:45,620
spent ski or Steinar on a variety of

2952
02:19:49,841 --> 02:19:47,810
other and then there's new developments

2953
02:19:52,180 --> 02:19:49,851
there - I mean this bit as I said

2954
02:19:55,180 --> 02:19:52,190
there's a resurgence of Russian paganism

2955
02:19:58,480 --> 02:19:55,190
there's a kind of Russian pagan Church

2956
02:19:59,980 --> 02:19:58,490
that's come back to prominence and it's

2957
02:20:02,860 --> 02:19:59,990
also happening in Poland and then

2958
02:20:04,600 --> 02:20:02,870
there's something called Anastasia

2959
02:20:06,430 --> 02:20:04,610
Nastasia ISM I don't know if you're

2960
02:20:08,500 --> 02:20:06,440
familiar with this no tell me about that

2961
02:20:11,320 --> 02:20:08,510
this is it this is a new movement this

2962
02:20:14,290 --> 02:20:11,330
was this is something happened there was

2963
02:20:18,100 --> 02:20:14,300
a writer who talks about meeting this

2964
02:20:19,690 --> 02:20:18,110
woman in Siberia or a part of Siberia

2965
02:20:21,940 --> 02:20:19,700
and there are these sort of singing I

2966
02:20:24,080 --> 02:20:21,950
think they're Cedars these singing trees

2967
02:20:26,630 --> 02:20:24,090
these singing Cedars

2968
02:20:29,450 --> 02:20:26,640
and he it's it's kind of like Don Juan

2969
02:20:32,630 --> 02:20:29,460
and and Carlos fascinated in Don Juan

2970
02:20:35,150 --> 02:20:32,640
sort of thing where he meets this woman

2971
02:20:37,639 --> 02:20:35,160
and she teaches him about you know

2972
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:37,649
getting back to nature and back to the

2973
02:20:42,800 --> 02:20:41,010
earth and spirituality and all this and

2974
02:20:44,240 --> 02:20:42,810
then she she gives him the task of

2975
02:20:45,860 --> 02:20:44,250
writing a book about this and then he

2976
02:20:47,960 --> 02:20:45,870
writes this book and it becomes a

2977
02:20:50,590 --> 02:20:47,970
worldwide phenomenon I mean apparently

2978
02:20:54,520 --> 02:20:50,600
the books are remarkable bestsellers

2979
02:20:57,080 --> 02:20:54,530
just extraordinary bestsellers and it's

2980
02:20:58,820 --> 02:20:57,090
being exported to this apparently in the

2981
02:21:02,320 --> 02:20:58,830
States it's caught on quite a bit and

2982
02:21:05,030 --> 02:21:02,330
I'm saying and holy Russia that you know

2983
02:21:06,800 --> 02:21:05,040
Putin Russia may or may not have

2984
02:21:08,090 --> 02:21:06,810
interfered with the u.s. elections but

2985
02:21:13,070 --> 02:21:08,100
there's certainly very good at exporting

2986
02:21:15,469 --> 02:21:13,080
these these new religions and yeah this

2987
02:21:18,740 --> 02:21:15,479
is something that is a flowering of all

2988
02:21:20,960 --> 02:21:18,750
of all this resurgence in the old

2989
02:21:23,630 --> 02:21:20,970
spiritual ideas from the Silver Age and

2990
02:21:28,310 --> 02:21:23,640
and newer ones that are that are coming

2991
02:21:32,510 --> 02:21:28,320
up there's another spin on this that

2992
02:21:36,740 --> 02:21:32,520
most of the West isn't aware of but last

2993
02:21:42,230 --> 02:21:36,750
month Putin made a move in the Soviet

2994
02:21:45,860 --> 02:21:42,240
Union to remove his term limits okay and

2995
02:21:48,530 --> 02:21:45,870
to shift over from President to Prime

2996
02:21:50,780 --> 02:21:48,540
Minister and the and the power will be

2997
02:21:54,710 --> 02:21:50,790
what well anyway the bottom line is this

2998
02:22:01,870 --> 02:21:54,720
that he is now in a position to be the

2999
02:22:05,090 --> 02:22:01,880
guy until his death right and and and

3000
02:22:07,490 --> 02:22:05,100
embracing the Silver Age and the

3001
02:22:11,150 --> 02:22:07,500
Philosopher's of those ages and

3002
02:22:18,349 --> 02:22:11,160
everything else that will make Russia

3003
02:22:22,849 --> 02:22:18,359
proud this is part of who he is he wants

3004
02:22:24,349 --> 02:22:22,859
to embrace his Ukraine yes another thing

3005
02:22:26,960 --> 02:22:24,359
he wants to embrace his Ukraine and

3006
02:22:31,070 --> 02:22:26,970
Crimea and he has already and again this

3007
02:22:33,650 --> 02:22:31,080
is all the stuff that happened in my was

3008
02:22:36,740 --> 02:22:33,660
at 2013/14 and Ukraine and Crimea a

3009
02:22:39,770 --> 02:22:36,750
great deal of it is

3010
02:22:42,010 --> 02:22:39,780
by this notion of eurasia the great deal

3011
02:22:46,100 --> 02:22:42,020
of his fuel and it's also fueled by

3012
02:22:48,650 --> 02:22:46,110
reclaiming you know the lands that were

3013
02:22:52,160 --> 02:22:48,660
part of Russia and Ukraine in Kiev Kiev

3014
02:22:55,280 --> 02:22:52,170
is the first Russian city really yeah

3015
02:22:59,090 --> 02:22:55,290
that this is like where it all kind of

3016
02:23:00,800 --> 02:22:59,100
starts its I mean that this epic even at

3017
02:23:05,030 --> 02:23:00,810
they call it even ruse and this is like

3018
02:23:08,660 --> 02:23:05,040
the early from about Wow about 1000 you

3019
02:23:11,270 --> 02:23:08,670
know and until the the Mongols take over

3020
02:23:13,790 --> 02:23:11,280
in the 1200s and it's sort of like the

3021
02:23:17,150 --> 02:23:13,800
Russian King Arthur time it's this

3022
02:23:19,790 --> 02:23:17,160
marvelous time of you know heroes and

3023
02:23:21,680 --> 02:23:19,800
battles and and and stories and myths

3024
02:23:23,480 --> 02:23:21,690
and beauty and Kiev is this wonderful

3025
02:23:25,220 --> 02:23:23,490
you know beautiful city and there's a

3026
02:23:27,770 --> 02:23:25,230
kind of nostalgia for that and one of

3027
02:23:29,870 --> 02:23:27,780
the reasons why you know Putin wanted to

3028
02:23:32,090 --> 02:23:29,880
reclaim Ukraine and Crimea was to get

3029
02:23:33,590 --> 02:23:32,100
the heart of Russia to get Kiev and this

3030
02:23:35,540 --> 02:23:33,600
is battle throughout the history of what

3031
02:23:37,880 --> 02:23:35,550
who does Ukraine belong to is the part

3032
02:23:39,590 --> 02:23:37,890
of Russia is its own country is it

3033
02:23:42,440 --> 02:23:39,600
little Russia and all this sort of thing

3034
02:23:46,040 --> 02:23:42,450
and I forget exactly when it was but

3035
02:23:48,530 --> 02:23:46,050
just outside the Kremlin Putin had

3036
02:23:50,390 --> 02:23:48,540
erected this huge - actually - Vladimir

3037
02:23:53,570 --> 02:23:50,400
the first who was the the first you know

3038
02:23:57,530 --> 02:23:53,580
sort of ruler of a kind of whole United

3039
02:23:59,390 --> 02:23:57,540
kind of Russian nature and so there's a

3040
02:24:02,360 --> 02:23:59,400
whole sense that what he wants to do is

3041
02:24:04,550 --> 02:24:02,370
get all this back and it's not sort of

3042
02:24:06,440 --> 02:24:04,560
put the USSR back together but to

3043
02:24:08,300 --> 02:24:06,450
reclaim all this land that had had

3044
02:24:11,920 --> 02:24:08,310
belonged historically - to greater

3045
02:24:15,260 --> 02:24:11,930
Russia to Eurasia what do you think that

3046
02:24:18,080 --> 02:24:15,270
grabbing at the emotions like that in

3047
02:24:20,840 --> 02:24:18,090
such a way do you think that's that's

3048
02:24:24,920 --> 02:24:20,850
real right do you think that's part of

3049
02:24:27,850 --> 02:24:24,930
Vladimir Putin for real or it's there's

3050
02:24:31,100 --> 02:24:27,860
something else that's in play here and

3051
02:24:33,740 --> 02:24:31,110
it's not part of who he is but he wants

3052
02:24:36,410 --> 02:24:33,750
to remain in power well I think he's one

3053
02:24:38,180 --> 02:24:36,420
of these enigmatic people but I see my

3054
02:24:39,470 --> 02:24:38,190
impression again I'm not an expert but I

3055
02:24:42,170 --> 02:24:39,480
certainly think he wants to remain in

3056
02:24:44,590 --> 02:24:42,180
power and you know in a way it's kind of

3057
02:24:48,920 --> 02:24:44,600
like the Mafia you know you're in power

3058
02:24:50,020 --> 02:24:48,930
you you you helped the last guy Yeltsin

3059
02:24:52,270 --> 02:24:50,030
I mean Putin

3060
02:24:55,210 --> 02:24:52,280
protected Yeltsin as it were Yeltsin had

3061
02:24:56,770 --> 02:24:55,220
to go they were looking for a

3062
02:24:59,710 --> 02:24:56,780
replacement someone to take his place

3063
02:25:01,990 --> 02:24:59,720
and the deal was who carry you have to

3064
02:25:03,130 --> 02:25:02,000
protect me when some had a power and and

3065
02:25:05,200 --> 02:25:03,140
sort of Putin is doing the same thing

3066
02:25:07,300 --> 02:25:05,210
and the strange thing about that if you

3067
02:25:09,400 --> 02:25:07,310
know the story is when they were looking

3068
02:25:11,410 --> 02:25:09,410
for you know someone to sort of you know

3069
02:25:13,870 --> 02:25:11,420
become FD else and cuz Yeltsin was the

3070
02:25:16,390 --> 02:25:13,880
first president of this Russian this new

3071
02:25:19,930 --> 02:25:16,400
Russian nation after the collapse of the

3072
02:25:23,440 --> 02:25:19,940
USSR they did a kind of public survey

3073
02:25:25,150 --> 02:25:23,450
and they asked the people you know who

3074
02:25:28,360 --> 02:25:25,160
would you like what would you what were

3075
02:25:31,500 --> 02:25:28,370
the characteristics the you know of a

3076
02:25:35,290 --> 02:25:31,510
leader that you wanted and there was a

3077
02:25:37,860 --> 02:25:35,300
Russian television show in the seventies

3078
02:25:40,420 --> 02:25:37,870
I can't know the exact name of it now

3079
02:25:45,070 --> 02:25:40,430
had some something spring might month

3080
02:25:49,300 --> 02:25:45,080
but it's seven seven seven something of

3081
02:25:54,700 --> 02:25:49,310
seven days of spring yeah and it was the

3082
02:25:58,150 --> 02:25:54,710
story about this Russian agent in

3083
02:26:00,190 --> 02:25:58,160
Germany yeah and apparently Putin fit

3084
02:26:01,810 --> 02:26:00,200
that bill they said this want him

3085
02:26:04,210 --> 02:26:01,820
someone like that he want somebody like

3086
02:26:05,800 --> 02:26:04,220
this and they looked through they had

3087
02:26:08,410 --> 02:26:05,810
and said oh yeah this guy who's sort of

3088
02:26:10,630 --> 02:26:08,420
the the right-hand man of the mayor of

3089
02:26:13,390 --> 02:26:10,640
st. Petersburg he's I think he fits the

3090
02:26:16,780 --> 02:26:13,400
bill and so they you know have you seen

3091
02:26:18,700 --> 02:26:16,790
it have you seen the series I haven't I

3092
02:26:21,640 --> 02:26:18,710
think somebody sent me a clip or two

3093
02:26:23,620 --> 02:26:21,650
from like YouTube or something no you oh

3094
02:26:27,220 --> 02:26:23,630
it's one of the Great's that that is

3095
02:26:33,040 --> 02:26:27,230
that is real cinema no I'm serious I

3096
02:26:36,130 --> 02:26:33,050
mean oh yes oh yeah I've seen it all

3097
02:26:36,520 --> 02:26:36,140
I've seen it all but seven days of

3098
02:26:38,740 --> 02:26:36,530
spring

3099
02:26:41,590 --> 02:26:38,750
I believe that's what it's called yeah I

3100
02:26:44,820 --> 02:26:41,600
think you're right changed my life so I

3101
02:26:46,660 --> 02:26:44,830
mean again a weird thing I mean

3102
02:26:49,330 --> 02:26:46,670
chronologically it's not the same time

3103
02:26:51,310 --> 02:26:49,340
but you have okay in the states you've

3104
02:26:55,210 --> 02:26:51,320
got a president who you know was a

3105
02:26:58,270 --> 02:26:55,220
reality TV star in Russia you have a

3106
02:27:01,610 --> 02:26:58,280
leader who wasn't a reality TV star but

3107
02:27:04,580 --> 02:27:01,620
he fit the bill of this television hero

3108
02:27:06,500 --> 02:27:04,590
and while in power he created or has

3109
02:27:09,950 --> 02:27:06,510
stolen power he created this whole as he

3110
02:27:12,560 --> 02:27:09,960
said this kind of virtual reality world

3111
02:27:13,940 --> 02:27:12,570
for the Russian populace - you know - to

3112
02:27:17,630 --> 02:27:13,950
be the world they lived in because he

3113
02:27:20,091 --> 02:27:17,640
controlled the media I I've got ahead to

3114
02:27:21,770 --> 02:27:20,101
a break and normally I would go to open

3115
02:27:23,210 --> 02:27:21,780
lines after this but I'm enjoying this

3116
02:27:25,100 --> 02:27:23,220
conversation you want to do some

3117
02:27:26,420 --> 02:27:25,110
overtime yeah I could do I could do it

3118
02:27:27,740 --> 02:27:26,430
better my eyes are starting to shut on

3119
02:27:30,310 --> 02:27:27,750
me but I can do it

3120
02:27:33,110 --> 02:27:30,320
you've got a whole day in front of you

3121
02:27:34,910 --> 02:27:33,120
you can relax you can relax in 20

3122
02:27:36,950 --> 02:27:34,920
minutes let's take our break here we're

3123
02:27:38,870 --> 02:27:36,960
gonna go and do some overtime with Gary

3124
02:27:41,360 --> 02:27:38,880
Lachman live from the UK we are

3125
02:27:43,790 --> 02:27:41,370
discussing his new book it's called the

3126
02:27:45,801 --> 02:27:43,800
return of holy Russia apocalyptic

3127
02:27:47,690 --> 02:27:45,811
history mystical awakening and the

3128
02:27:49,011 --> 02:27:47,700
struggle for the soul of the world I'm

3129
02:27:51,890 --> 02:27:49,021
gonna take things in another direction

3130
02:27:53,180 --> 02:27:51,900
when we come back he doesn't know what

3131
02:28:19,230 --> 02:27:53,190
we're gonna do it when we come back

3132
02:28:27,610 --> 02:28:22,450
and you are listen to my boy Jimmy

3133
02:28:30,881 --> 02:28:27,620
Church on Jimmy Church radio calm this

3134
02:28:38,650 --> 02:28:30,891
my popular opinion reading a book will

3135
02:28:40,660 --> 02:28:38,660
not make you smarter this is Jimmy

3136
02:28:43,720 --> 02:28:40,670
Church of fade to black and I take life

3137
02:28:46,960 --> 02:28:43,730
changed he supplements every single day

3138
02:28:52,511 --> 02:28:46,970
it's what I do click on their banner ad

3139
02:28:55,000 --> 02:28:52,521
Jimmy Church radio calm when you take

3140
02:28:57,520 --> 02:28:55,010
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3141
02:28:59,680 --> 02:28:57,530
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3142
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3143
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3148
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3156
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3157
02:29:49,860 --> 02:29:43,940
and use the promo code F to B blend for

3158
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3159
02:29:56,530 --> 02:29:53,960
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3160
02:29:58,360 --> 02:29:56,540
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3161
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3179
02:30:39,190 --> 02:30:36,170
mobile device or computer surf their

3180
02:30:41,530 --> 02:30:39,200
forbidden knowledge TV that's forbidden

3181
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:41,540
knowledge with the number-four forbidden

3182
02:30:49,300 --> 02:30:41,930
knowledge

3183
02:30:51,940 --> 02:30:49,310
today are you intrigued by paranormal

3184
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:51,950
talk radio you love the new paranormal

3185
02:30:57,340 --> 02:30:55,610
radio app from torque stream live you'll

3186
02:31:00,490 --> 02:30:57,350
find a great selection of talk shows

3187
02:31:03,190 --> 02:31:00,500
covering UFOs ghosts strange phenomena

3188
02:31:05,469 --> 02:31:03,200
and much more download the paranormal

3189
02:31:07,090 --> 02:31:05,479
radio app now and start listening to the

3190
02:31:09,100 --> 02:31:07,100
very best in paranormal talk

3191
02:31:10,900 --> 02:31:09,110
entertainment including the network

3192
02:31:13,810 --> 02:31:10,910
you're listening to right now the

3193
02:31:23,309 --> 02:31:13,820
paranormal radio app free in Google Play

3194
02:31:37,599 --> 02:31:27,040
it's not a lifestyle we chose we were

3195
02:31:53,510 --> 02:31:37,609
born this way k GRA radio.com this is k

3196
02:31:57,360 --> 02:31:55,230
all right welcome back

3197
02:31:59,820 --> 02:31:57,370
fade to black hi I'm Marisa me church on

3198
02:32:02,100 --> 02:31:59,830
the GameChanger network in kg ra the

3199
02:32:06,840 --> 02:32:02,110
planet our guest tonight Gary Lachlan

3200
02:32:10,350 --> 02:32:06,850
and Gary this is where I'm gonna go and

3201
02:32:15,600 --> 02:32:10,360
and and and that now we can relax okay

3202
02:32:17,940 --> 02:32:15,610
now is that and as I announced over time

3203
02:32:21,510 --> 02:32:17,950
I got a tweet that came in from

3204
02:32:25,380 --> 02:32:21,520
Australia and I'm going to read you the

3205
02:32:28,980 --> 02:32:25,390
tweets as a question you ready this is a

3206
02:32:34,800 --> 02:32:28,990
from mark mark says has Gary seen a UFO

3207
02:32:36,750 --> 02:32:34,810
or had a paranormal experience like well

3208
02:32:41,640 --> 02:32:36,760
I've seen lights in the sky I didn't

3209
02:32:43,820 --> 02:32:41,650
know what they were but I'm just now too

3210
02:32:47,190 --> 02:32:43,830
started doing a new book and it's about

3211
02:32:50,460 --> 02:32:47,200
precognitive dreams about dreams of the

3212
02:32:52,820 --> 02:32:50,470
future and I've been recording those in

3213
02:32:56,790 --> 02:32:52,830
my dream journals for the last 40 years

3214
02:32:58,710 --> 02:32:56,800
along with lots of synchronicities you

3215
02:33:00,960 --> 02:32:58,720
know meaningful coincidence and all that

3216
02:33:02,910 --> 02:33:00,970
and yeah that's that's that so that's

3217
02:33:05,460 --> 02:33:02,920
the book I'm working on now now what

3218
02:33:06,290 --> 02:33:05,470
when did you first start this is great

3219
02:33:09,410 --> 02:33:06,300
by the way

3220
02:33:13,460 --> 02:33:09,420
that was that that was an awesome Segway

3221
02:33:20,700 --> 02:33:13,470
is this when did you start to recognize

3222
02:33:25,830 --> 02:33:20,710
synchronicities well well I mean I

3223
02:33:28,020 --> 02:33:25,840
started recording I realized that I had

3224
02:33:30,030 --> 02:33:28,030
dreams of the future put it that way and

3225
02:33:32,070 --> 02:33:30,040
again let me say it's nothing really

3226
02:33:34,310 --> 02:33:32,080
spectacular it isn't you know I haven't

3227
02:33:37,110 --> 02:33:34,320
won any races and I haven't you know

3228
02:33:38,580 --> 02:33:37,120
buried and I need any disasters or

3229
02:33:43,320 --> 02:33:38,590
anything like that it tends to be kind

3230
02:33:45,719 --> 02:33:43,330
of trivial everyday things but in 1980 I

3231
02:33:48,030 --> 02:33:45,729
read a book called an experiment with

3232
02:33:52,170 --> 02:33:48,040
time and this was a book that was

3233
02:33:55,280 --> 02:33:52,180
published in 1927 by a military man an

3234
02:33:57,780 --> 02:33:55,290
aeronautics engineer named JW done and

3235
02:34:01,290 --> 02:33:57,790
he had no interest in the occult

3236
02:34:05,791 --> 02:34:01,300
nothing like that whatsoever but just by

3237
02:34:07,441 --> 02:34:05,801
chance he he had a dream we

3238
02:34:10,501 --> 02:34:07,451
arguing about with someone about the

3239
02:34:14,371 --> 02:34:10,511
time and in the dream he says that it's

3240
02:34:16,111 --> 02:34:14,381
4:30 and the other person he's arguing

3241
02:34:17,551 --> 02:34:16,121
with says no no it's not or something

3242
02:34:19,711 --> 02:34:17,561
like that and in the dream he pulls out

3243
02:34:22,470 --> 02:34:19,721
his pocket watch and he looks and it's

3244
02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:22,480
4:30 and then he wakes up it's 4:30 in

3245
02:34:26,640 --> 02:34:24,610
the morning he wakes up you know and he

3246
02:34:29,041 --> 02:34:26,650
thought that's odd and he was curious

3247
02:34:31,470 --> 02:34:29,051
and he said well let me see what time it

3248
02:34:33,661 --> 02:34:31,480
is and so we went over to get his watch

3249
02:34:36,301 --> 02:34:33,671
and he picked it up and it had stopped

3250
02:34:39,451 --> 02:34:36,311
it had stopped at 4:30 and he said how

3251
02:34:40,921 --> 02:34:39,461
strange and he he round to watch again

3252
02:34:43,321 --> 02:34:40,931
he thought well it must have stopped

3253
02:34:44,821 --> 02:34:43,331
during the day and I just noticed it and

3254
02:34:46,741 --> 02:34:44,831
somehow in the back of my mind it was

3255
02:34:49,501 --> 02:34:46,751
nagging me and that's why I had this

3256
02:34:53,100 --> 02:34:49,511
dream so that he wakes up later on you

3257
02:34:54,751 --> 02:34:53,110
know in the day and um he thinks oh I

3258
02:34:55,981 --> 02:34:54,761
have to get my watch and check it

3259
02:34:57,930 --> 02:34:55,991
against the [\h__\h] to see what the right

3260
02:35:00,451 --> 02:34:57,940
time is and he realizes that actually

3261
02:35:03,691 --> 02:35:00,461
his watch is the right time so it had

3262
02:35:05,701 --> 02:35:03,701
stopped at 4:30 he had as it as he

3263
02:35:07,621 --> 02:35:05,711
thought in the dream he woke up at that

3264
02:35:10,251 --> 02:35:07,631
time and it was exactly the right time

3265
02:35:13,171 --> 02:35:10,261
so he thought that's really strange and

3266
02:35:17,161 --> 02:35:13,181
so he thought he'll try and experiment

3267
02:35:19,921 --> 02:35:17,171
so he the next morning he sort of lies

3268
02:35:22,501 --> 02:35:19,931
in bed just as he's waking up and he

3269
02:35:25,441 --> 02:35:22,511
tries to sort of picture his his watch

3270
02:35:27,180 --> 02:35:25,451
in his head you know visualize it and to

3271
02:35:30,091 --> 02:35:27,190
get a clearer picture of Missy what time

3272
02:35:32,491 --> 02:35:30,101
it is and it was 802 or something like

3273
02:35:34,621 --> 02:35:32,501
that and so all right right he gets that

3274
02:35:37,861 --> 02:35:34,631
gets up picks up the watch and lo and

3275
02:35:39,451 --> 02:35:37,871
behold it's 802 now and so yeah so other

3276
02:35:41,970 --> 02:35:39,461
weird things start happening and then he

3277
02:35:47,401 --> 02:35:41,980
has a the big thing is that he has this

3278
02:35:49,411 --> 02:35:47,411
dream in which he's on an island and he

3279
02:35:52,021 --> 02:35:49,421
sees sort of cracks and fissures opening

3280
02:35:53,881 --> 02:35:52,031
up in you know in the ground and steam

3281
02:35:55,771 --> 02:35:53,891
is coming up out of them and he realizes

3282
02:36:00,001 --> 02:35:55,781
there's going to be a volcanic eruption

3283
02:36:02,220 --> 02:36:00,011
and in the dream he suddenly knows that

3284
02:36:05,701 --> 02:36:02,230
you know 40,000 people are going to die

3285
02:36:07,291 --> 02:36:05,711
from this and he's running around in the

3286
02:36:07,921 --> 02:36:07,301
dream trying to get the authorities than

3287
02:36:10,981 --> 02:36:07,931
they were French

3288
02:36:13,021 --> 02:36:10,991
so French authorities to you know to act

3289
02:36:14,551 --> 02:36:13,031
they're to evacuate the island and no

3290
02:36:16,250 --> 02:36:14,561
one's paying attention to him and

3291
02:36:19,550 --> 02:36:16,260
they're just ignoring him and all that

3292
02:36:21,410 --> 02:36:19,560
and he wakes up out of the dream just as

3293
02:36:24,830 --> 02:36:21,420
he's trying to convince some some you

3294
02:36:27,519 --> 02:36:24,840
know French you know specific person

3295
02:36:30,019 --> 02:36:27,529
whatever to get the evacuation going and

3296
02:36:34,519 --> 02:36:30,029
you know so it's it's just a dream but

3297
02:36:38,840 --> 02:36:34,529
then a few days later he hears about the

3298
02:36:41,269 --> 02:36:38,850
famous eruption of Mount Pele on the

3299
02:36:44,809 --> 02:36:41,279
island of Martinique and this is in 1902

3300
02:36:48,710 --> 02:36:44,819
and it's not as well known as Krakatoa

3301
02:36:51,889 --> 02:36:48,720
but it rivaled Krakatoa in its intensity

3302
02:36:54,469 --> 02:36:51,899
and it was the greatest volcanic

3303
02:36:57,950 --> 02:36:54,479
eruption of the 20th century and he

3304
02:37:00,200 --> 02:36:57,960
realized that he rather than actually

3305
02:37:01,969 --> 02:37:00,210
dreaming of the eruption itself he

3306
02:37:05,750 --> 02:37:01,979
dreamed about him reading about it in

3307
02:37:08,059 --> 02:37:05,760
the newspaper so he dreamed what he was

3308
02:37:09,950 --> 02:37:08,069
going to read about in advance and so I

3309
02:37:11,420 --> 02:37:09,960
read this book and what Dunn says is

3310
02:37:13,730 --> 02:37:11,430
like you know look don't take my word

3311
02:37:15,830 --> 02:37:13,740
for this and he developed this whole

3312
02:37:17,719 --> 02:37:15,840
very strange complicated system of a

3313
02:37:19,250 --> 02:37:17,729
kind of serial time and different sorts

3314
02:37:22,550 --> 02:37:19,260
of levels of time in order to account

3315
02:37:24,230 --> 02:37:22,560
for this and you know you don't have to

3316
02:37:25,910 --> 02:37:24,240
accept that to just skip his the

3317
02:37:27,800 --> 02:37:25,920
essential point and he said look just

3318
02:37:29,389 --> 02:37:27,810
write your dreams down then pay

3319
02:37:32,150 --> 02:37:29,399
attention to what happens during the day

3320
02:37:33,889 --> 02:37:32,160
and you will see soon enough that little

3321
02:37:35,840 --> 02:37:33,899
bits and pieces of the future turn up in

3322
02:37:37,880 --> 02:37:35,850
your dreams and that's what I did so

3323
02:37:40,099 --> 02:37:37,890
this is 1980 I'm living New York I'm

3324
02:37:41,870 --> 02:37:40,109
still you know in the rock world I had

3325
02:37:44,300 --> 02:37:41,880
my own band and it was called the know

3326
02:37:46,730 --> 02:37:44,310
and that was a Oh W and that was because

3327
02:37:49,370 --> 02:37:46,740
of my interest in Gnosticism at the time

3328
02:37:50,990 --> 02:37:49,380
and so I start doing what he suggests I

3329
02:37:53,690 --> 02:37:51,000
started writing down my dreams and

3330
02:37:58,400 --> 02:37:53,700
pretty soon after law behold he was

3331
02:38:00,469 --> 02:37:58,410
right and I it's something that I'd

3332
02:38:02,809 --> 02:38:00,479
mentioned in a couple books I wrote an

3333
02:38:04,070 --> 02:38:02,819
article about this Oh some years ago now

3334
02:38:06,320 --> 02:38:04,080
for the quest magazine which is

3335
02:38:11,330 --> 02:38:06,330
published by the Theosophical Society in

3336
02:38:15,260 --> 02:38:11,340
America but Nast last year I gave a talk

3337
02:38:17,000 --> 02:38:15,270
here in London it was during something

3338
02:38:19,519 --> 02:38:17,010
called London month of the Dead so this

3339
02:38:21,139 --> 02:38:19,529
is weird kind of McCobb you know sorts

3340
02:38:23,059 --> 02:38:21,149
of settings for talks and I gave a talk

3341
02:38:25,160 --> 02:38:23,069
in the Brompton cemetery which is if you

3342
02:38:27,469 --> 02:38:25,170
know London it's a very famous cemetery

3343
02:38:30,270 --> 02:38:27,479
and the west side and I gave a talk

3344
02:38:34,001 --> 02:38:30,280
about hypnagogic

3345
02:38:36,671 --> 02:38:34,011
hallucinations which the gokyo

3346
02:38:39,671 --> 02:38:36,681
hypnagogic hallucination so these kind

3347
02:38:42,070 --> 02:38:39,681
of visions or images or symbols and you

3348
02:38:44,831 --> 02:38:42,080
could hear sentences sometimes - that

3349
02:38:47,621 --> 02:38:44,841
happened to us as we drift into sleep so

3350
02:38:49,600 --> 02:38:47,631
hypnagogic state it's it's an in-between

3351
02:38:51,610 --> 02:38:49,610
state in between waking and sleeping so

3352
02:38:53,381 --> 02:38:51,620
it's you're sort of in this liminal kind

3353
02:38:54,671 --> 02:38:53,391
of state and I've written about that in

3354
02:38:56,381 --> 02:38:54,681
quite a few of my books because people

3355
02:38:58,900 --> 02:38:56,391
like young in people like wheel of

3356
02:39:00,551 --> 02:38:58,910
Steiner and people like Swedenborg and

3357
02:39:02,980 --> 02:39:00,561
who's Penske and others they they all

3358
02:39:05,320 --> 02:39:02,990
explored this this liminal

3359
02:39:07,450 --> 02:39:05,330
realm and it's supposed to be the way

3360
02:39:10,421 --> 02:39:07,460
you can you know sort of astral travel

3361
02:39:12,911 --> 02:39:10,431
or of a variety of different paranormal

3362
02:39:14,591 --> 02:39:12,921
phenomena associated with it and I tack

3363
02:39:15,791 --> 02:39:14,601
giving you talk about that the history

3364
02:39:18,100 --> 02:39:15,801
of it in different people who you know

3365
02:39:19,871 --> 02:39:18,110
explored it I tacked on to it

3366
02:39:22,121 --> 02:39:19,881
precognitive dreams and i and i you know

3367
02:39:24,310 --> 02:39:22,131
i mentioned a few of mine and i said

3368
02:39:25,930 --> 02:39:24,320
just the same story I told you I got

3369
02:39:28,030 --> 02:39:25,940
into this by you know reading this book

3370
02:39:30,041 --> 02:39:28,040
and I recorded my dreams and lo and

3371
02:39:33,791 --> 02:39:30,051
behold it happened and so the next day

3372
02:39:35,921 --> 02:39:33,801
after this talk I got a tweet from

3373
02:39:37,421 --> 02:39:35,931
somebody or someone tagged me in the

3374
02:39:38,411 --> 02:39:37,431
tweet who had been to the talk and she

3375
02:39:42,011 --> 02:39:38,421
said oh my god

3376
02:39:44,621 --> 02:39:42,021
you're you're right this is true last

3377
02:39:46,240 --> 02:39:44,631
night I dreamt that I picked up a

3378
02:39:49,091 --> 02:39:46,250
hedgehog which is one of these small

3379
02:39:50,261 --> 02:39:49,101
kind of you know animals that you don't

3380
02:39:53,261 --> 02:39:50,271
see them in the states that much but

3381
02:39:54,820 --> 02:39:53,271
they're very familiar here and it was in

3382
02:39:56,350 --> 02:39:54,830
the it was in the road and I picked it

3383
02:39:58,180 --> 02:39:56,360
up out of the road and they put it onto

3384
02:40:01,631 --> 02:39:58,190
a safe spot you know on the pavement or

3385
02:40:03,581 --> 02:40:01,641
you know somewhere and so I had that

3386
02:40:05,650 --> 02:40:03,591
dream and the first thing in the morning

3387
02:40:07,030 --> 02:40:05,660
when I logged on to Twitter and the

3388
02:40:09,400 --> 02:40:07,040
first thing I saw on my Twitter feed

3389
02:40:12,070 --> 02:40:09,410
this woman told me was a post about how

3390
02:40:14,591 --> 02:40:12,080
to protect the hedgehogs how to save the

3391
02:40:16,780 --> 02:40:14,601
hedgehogs and getting run over basically

3392
02:40:19,121 --> 02:40:16,790
and she said I can't believe it you're

3393
02:40:20,560 --> 02:40:19,131
right and I wrote back and I said well

3394
02:40:24,161 --> 02:40:20,570
this is exactly the thing you know

3395
02:40:26,801 --> 02:40:24,171
oftentimes it's not exactly you know the

3396
02:40:29,621 --> 02:40:26,811
future but it's it's it's subject to

3397
02:40:31,661 --> 02:40:29,631
what I call symbolic distortion so

3398
02:40:33,490 --> 02:40:31,671
there's a slight slight distortion in it

3399
02:40:35,140 --> 02:40:33,500
but I mean it's pretty damn close I mean

3400
02:40:36,581 --> 02:40:35,150
if you you know you dream about picking

3401
02:40:37,900 --> 02:40:36,591
a hedgehog off the road and putting it

3402
02:40:40,001 --> 02:40:37,910
in safety and then the first thing you

3403
02:40:41,680 --> 02:40:40,011
see when you turn on your computer or

3404
02:40:43,540 --> 02:40:41,690
your phone in the morning is a post

3405
02:40:45,880 --> 02:40:43,550
about that so that's pretty close

3406
02:40:47,559 --> 02:40:45,890
and so I just have the problem I'm

3407
02:40:50,559 --> 02:40:47,569
having is is sifting through all the

3408
02:40:52,240 --> 02:40:50,569
ones I have and you know trying to find

3409
02:40:54,280 --> 02:40:52,250
the most interesting ones and then it

3410
02:40:56,469 --> 02:40:54,290
blends into synchronicities and things

3411
02:40:58,660 --> 02:40:56,479
of that sort - I mean a synchronicity is

3412
02:41:00,790 --> 02:40:58,670
meaningful coincidence when something

3413
02:41:02,920 --> 02:41:00,800
happening in your head and something out

3414
02:41:04,750 --> 02:41:02,930
in the outer world you know are related

3415
02:41:06,130 --> 02:41:04,760
but not causally they're related by

3416
02:41:08,770 --> 02:41:06,140
meaning and and you get this weird

3417
02:41:11,349 --> 02:41:08,780
feeling like who knew I was thinking

3418
02:41:14,070 --> 02:41:11,359
about what do you do you see that this

3419
02:41:19,260 --> 02:41:14,080
is the thing what do you do with that

3420
02:41:22,360 --> 02:41:19,270
right is it is it is it telling you

3421
02:41:25,170 --> 02:41:22,370
personally is it telling you that the

3422
02:41:29,530 --> 02:41:25,180
universe is not what you've been taught

3423
02:41:32,200 --> 02:41:29,540
right that's exactly I mean I this is

3424
02:41:35,770 --> 02:41:32,210
the theme and a few of my books were you

3425
02:41:38,020 --> 02:41:35,780
know this impassable barrier between our

3426
02:41:39,940 --> 02:41:38,030
insides or in a world in the outer world

3427
02:41:41,650 --> 02:41:39,950
which we've been taught is the case you

3428
02:41:44,290 --> 02:41:41,660
know there's this external world which

3429
02:41:45,700 --> 02:41:44,300
we all share physical world you know we

3430
02:41:47,740 --> 02:41:45,710
can explore it and go out into the vast

3431
02:41:49,570 --> 02:41:47,750
universe but inside our heads that's

3432
02:41:51,820 --> 02:41:49,580
just subjective and that just stays

3433
02:41:54,490 --> 02:41:51,830
inside your head and what I've learned

3434
02:41:57,490 --> 02:41:54,500
is is that unlike Vegas what happens in

3435
02:41:59,980 --> 02:41:57,500
the mind doesn't stay there it goes out

3436
02:42:01,780 --> 02:41:59,990
into the world and you know see ji-yong

3437
02:42:03,670 --> 02:42:01,790
the psychologist he's the one who

3438
02:42:06,760 --> 02:42:03,680
introduced this notion of synchronicity

3439
02:42:09,070 --> 02:42:06,770
and he wrote a book about it and tried

3440
02:42:10,540 --> 02:42:09,080
to develop you know scientific president

3441
02:42:13,690 --> 02:42:10,550
or a theory to explain it and lots of

3442
02:42:18,160 --> 02:42:13,700
other people and in fact I recently last

3443
02:42:19,719 --> 02:42:18,170
year I was in New York at a place called

3444
02:42:22,120 --> 02:42:19,729
the Omega studios which is in upstate

3445
02:42:25,480 --> 02:42:22,130
New York near Poughkeepsie and I was

3446
02:42:27,820 --> 02:42:25,490
doing a weekend seminar with Dean Radin

3447
02:42:32,230 --> 02:42:27,830
oh yeah he's great you know can you know

3448
02:42:35,830 --> 02:42:32,240
probably the the top scientists working

3449
02:42:38,469 --> 02:42:35,840
on the paranormal these days and he said

3450
02:42:40,480 --> 02:42:38,479
you know there's so much evidence for it

3451
02:42:42,820 --> 02:42:40,490
precognition and a variety of other

3452
02:42:44,559 --> 02:42:42,830
paranormal things but we talked about

3453
02:42:46,719 --> 02:42:44,569
precognition so much evidence for it

3454
02:42:50,440 --> 02:42:46,729
these days statistical evidence that

3455
02:42:53,801 --> 02:42:50,450
it's only this prejudice that you know

3456
02:42:55,761 --> 02:42:53,811
died in wool reductionist

3457
02:42:59,180 --> 02:42:55,771
rationalist materialist sort of

3458
02:43:00,620 --> 02:42:59,190
scientists it's only this prejudice that

3459
02:43:02,900 --> 02:43:00,630
prevents them from recognizing it oh

3460
02:43:04,250 --> 02:43:02,910
they don't want to bend oh they don't

3461
02:43:06,110 --> 02:43:04,260
want that sir because the thing is that

3462
02:43:07,520 --> 02:43:06,120
that's if the statistical evidence was

3463
02:43:08,930 --> 02:43:07,530
about anything else they would say yeah

3464
02:43:11,240 --> 02:43:08,940
of course this must be the case but

3465
02:43:12,440 --> 02:43:11,250
because it's that and there's another

3466
02:43:13,850 --> 02:43:12,450
it's a really interesting book that I

3467
02:43:16,580 --> 02:43:13,860
read I was doing the research a book

3468
02:43:19,700 --> 02:43:16,590
called time loops by a fellow named eric

3469
02:43:21,560 --> 02:43:19,710
worre ago and he it's a huge book and

3470
02:43:23,540 --> 02:43:21,570
he's come up with a very you know he is

3471
02:43:25,671 --> 02:43:23,550
a materialist but he believes in what he

3472
02:43:26,421 --> 02:43:25,681
calls retro causation that somehow the

3473
02:43:30,410 --> 02:43:26,431
future

3474
02:43:32,750 --> 02:43:30,420
somehow impacts on the past now and you

3475
02:43:35,150 --> 02:43:32,760
know makes things happen so it's kind of

3476
02:43:38,211 --> 02:43:35,160
like cause and effect get turned around

3477
02:43:41,030 --> 02:43:38,221
and funnily enough I've been watching a

3478
02:43:42,921 --> 02:43:41,040
series on Netflix called dark which is a

3479
02:43:45,560 --> 02:43:42,931
German series but it's it's it's all

3480
02:43:46,970 --> 02:43:45,570
about something like that yeah I haven't

3481
02:43:49,011 --> 02:43:46,980
I haven't seen that serie there's

3482
02:43:54,020 --> 02:43:49,021
another good one out right now it's

3483
02:43:55,040 --> 02:43:54,030
called devs devs it's on Hulu ok I've

3484
02:43:56,930 --> 02:43:55,050
been trying to find that because a

3485
02:43:59,990 --> 02:43:56,940
friend told me about I can't locate it

3486
02:44:04,610 --> 02:44:00,000
yeah it's it's just it's it's who just

3487
02:44:06,881 --> 02:44:04,620
go to Hulu but well worth everything

3488
02:44:09,890 --> 02:44:06,891
that we're talking about right now is

3489
02:44:12,020 --> 02:44:09,900
and these concepts that we discuss all

3490
02:44:15,290 --> 02:44:12,030
the time I have the I have the best I've

3491
02:44:18,860 --> 02:44:15,300
Dean rate down a few times where we

3492
02:44:21,591 --> 02:44:18,870
discuss these things and I know I know

3493
02:44:23,570 --> 02:44:21,601
that there's a frustration exactly what

3494
02:44:27,560 --> 02:44:23,580
you're talking about where you have the

3495
02:44:35,600 --> 02:44:27,570
science side the physics side the the

3496
02:44:38,330 --> 02:44:35,610
the non spiritual atheist pragmatic its

3497
02:44:40,671 --> 02:44:38,340
numbers it's math side of things that's

3498
02:44:46,070 --> 02:44:40,681
what consciousness is and then you have

3499
02:44:48,440 --> 02:44:46,080
the the spiritual side of and in

3500
02:44:51,680 --> 02:44:48,450
education - as well but the spiritual

3501
02:44:53,060 --> 02:44:51,690
side and they are very rapidly gary

3502
02:44:56,150 --> 02:44:53,070
they're gonna they're gonna hit each

3503
02:44:58,690 --> 02:44:56,160
other head-on here very quickly and

3504
02:45:03,381 --> 02:44:58,700
they're gonna have to agree to cooperate

3505
02:45:05,600 --> 02:45:03,391
at some point and again this is

3506
02:45:07,190 --> 02:45:05,610
something just going back to the russia

3507
02:45:09,410 --> 02:45:07,200
book this is something that

3508
02:45:11,390 --> 02:45:09,420
in the Silver Age was kind of the idea

3509
02:45:12,740 --> 02:45:11,400
that we have to bring these two things

3510
02:45:14,390 --> 02:45:12,750
together that you know they're they're

3511
02:45:17,240 --> 02:45:14,400
two sides of the same world that we

3512
02:45:20,091 --> 02:45:17,250
inhabit and I could just touch on it now

3513
02:45:23,631 --> 02:45:20,101
but I I would say there's neurological

3514
02:45:25,580 --> 02:45:23,641
evidence for that in the whole reality

3515
02:45:27,080 --> 02:45:25,590
of our having two brains I mean there's

3516
02:45:28,341 --> 02:45:27,090
a wonderful book came out about ten

3517
02:45:33,460 --> 02:45:28,351
years ago called the master and his

3518
02:45:36,680 --> 02:45:33,470
emissary by felony McGilchrist who's

3519
02:45:38,540 --> 02:45:36,690
he's he's you know he's he's from

3520
02:45:41,540 --> 02:45:38,550
England but he's neuroscientist but he's

3521
02:45:44,030 --> 02:45:41,550
also a English literary scholar and so

3522
02:45:47,120 --> 02:45:44,040
he is you know one foot in each camp and

3523
02:45:48,921 --> 02:45:47,130
he's rebooted the whole left right brain

3524
02:45:52,580 --> 02:45:48,931
story which kind of got in a sort of

3525
02:45:54,320 --> 02:45:52,590
petered out in the 90s but put it short

3526
02:45:55,580 --> 02:45:54,330
it's not so much that the different

3527
02:45:57,470 --> 02:45:55,590
sides of the brain do different things

3528
02:46:01,341 --> 02:45:57,480
but they do they do the same things but

3529
02:46:03,650 --> 02:46:01,351
they do them very differently this whole

3530
02:46:06,890 --> 02:46:03,660
right brain as a completely different

3531
02:46:08,780 --> 02:46:06,900
way of engaging and presenting the world

3532
02:46:10,820 --> 02:46:08,790
than than the left well do you think

3533
02:46:14,301 --> 02:46:10,830
that the philosophy of consciousness

3534
02:46:17,060 --> 02:46:14,311
which has been discussed and written

3535
02:46:19,790 --> 02:46:17,070
about and studied which seems like

3536
02:46:23,690 --> 02:46:19,800
forever is going to get to the point

3537
02:46:26,330 --> 02:46:23,700
where science has to take a look at

3538
02:46:28,820 --> 02:46:26,340
consciousness it maybe even in a

3539
02:46:31,910 --> 02:46:28,830
laboratory setting to figure out

3540
02:46:33,020 --> 02:46:31,920
actually what is going on well I mean

3541
02:46:36,410 --> 02:46:33,030
they've been working on that for a long

3542
02:46:37,671 --> 02:46:36,420
time I mean a book I wrote quite some

3543
02:46:39,830 --> 02:46:37,681
years ago called

3544
02:46:41,990 --> 02:46:39,840
a secret history of consciousness it

3545
02:46:47,060 --> 02:46:42,000
came out in 2003 so it's a while ago now

3546
02:46:48,200 --> 02:46:47,070
but I sort of start out saying the 1990s

3547
02:46:50,060 --> 02:46:48,210
was supposed to be the decade of the

3548
02:46:51,770 --> 02:46:50,070
brain but three 2000 had become the

3549
02:46:56,290 --> 02:46:51,780
decade of consciousness and and you do

3550
02:47:00,200 --> 02:46:56,300
have you know you have very very hard

3551
02:47:02,870 --> 02:47:00,210
no-nonsense scientists trying to explain

3552
02:47:04,910 --> 02:47:02,880
consciousness in terms of you know

3553
02:47:08,690 --> 02:47:04,920
physical activity whether it's neurons

3554
02:47:10,160 --> 02:47:08,700
firing or chemical exchanges but in

3555
02:47:12,261 --> 02:47:10,170
recent times there's been a resurgence

3556
02:47:16,720 --> 02:47:12,271
of the opposite of a kind of new

3557
02:47:20,900 --> 02:47:16,730
idealism a fella named Bernard cash drop

3558
02:47:24,469 --> 02:47:20,910
you know he's a philosopher

3559
02:47:26,300 --> 02:47:24,479
the country's he's in but he's rebooted

3560
02:47:28,250 --> 02:47:26,310
this whole notion that no actually the

3561
02:47:30,080 --> 02:47:28,260
mind is fundamental it's not it's not

3562
02:47:33,320 --> 02:47:30,090
matter it isn't this kind of thing I

3563
02:47:35,780 --> 02:47:33,330
mean and the thing is that the the the

3564
02:47:38,060 --> 02:47:35,790
thing that remains and and that has yet

3565
02:47:40,370 --> 02:47:38,070
no one's really been able to answer this

3566
02:47:42,350 --> 02:47:40,380
is what David Chalmers philosophy called

3567
02:47:44,179 --> 02:47:42,360
the hard the hard problem just how do

3568
02:47:46,219 --> 02:47:44,189
you get from a neuron to a thought

3569
02:47:48,740 --> 02:47:46,229
how do you do it I mean how does that

3570
02:47:51,580 --> 02:47:48,750
it's like well how many apples does it

3571
02:47:56,150 --> 02:47:51,590
take to make an orange I don't know

3572
02:47:59,170 --> 02:47:56,160
nobody does I don't know and and and

3573
02:48:02,060 --> 02:47:59,180
some of the you know the most

3574
02:48:04,190 --> 02:48:02,070
prestigious and profound scientists and

3575
02:48:05,570 --> 02:48:04,200
philosophers of mind they do admit that

3576
02:48:09,050 --> 02:48:05,580
yeah we've studied this and all that but

3577
02:48:11,270 --> 02:48:09,060
we still have no idea I mean I mean I to

3578
02:48:14,150 --> 02:48:11,280
the people who influenced me tend to be

3579
02:48:16,100 --> 02:48:14,160
a bit earlier and there's a French

3580
02:48:18,560 --> 02:48:16,110
philosopher army barracks and who was a

3581
02:48:20,780 --> 02:48:18,570
Nobel Prize winner he was one of the

3582
02:48:22,600 --> 02:48:20,790
most famous you know people in the world

3583
02:48:24,620 --> 02:48:22,610
and in the nineteen

3584
02:48:26,929 --> 02:48:24,630
early twentieth-century nineteen

3585
02:48:28,550 --> 02:48:26,939
twenties and he said consciousness is

3586
02:48:29,960 --> 02:48:28,560
something that's so fundamental that if

3587
02:48:36,200 --> 02:48:29,970
we try to define it we'll just get

3588
02:48:41,630 --> 02:48:36,210
confused and is it because I think it

3589
02:48:46,370 --> 02:48:41,640
might be fandom in that the people that

3590
02:48:49,460 --> 02:48:46,380
support these rock star please enjoy the

3591
02:48:52,420 --> 02:48:49,470
pun you know the rock star physicist out

3592
02:48:56,690 --> 02:48:52,430
there then write books and speak that

3593
02:48:59,570 --> 02:48:56,700
they don't want to disappoint their fans

3594
02:49:02,929 --> 02:48:59,580
and the money train I'm being very

3595
02:49:05,900 --> 02:49:02,939
straight here by going into the esoteric

3596
02:49:08,420 --> 02:49:05,910
and speaking about the consciousness may

3597
02:49:11,990 --> 02:49:08,430
not be a chemical reaction consciousness

3598
02:49:14,900 --> 02:49:12,000
may not be math consciousness might be

3599
02:49:19,310 --> 02:49:14,910
something else that we don't understand

3600
02:49:22,820 --> 02:49:19,320
but they can't go there go there because

3601
02:49:27,710 --> 02:49:22,830
a well what that does if you admit that

3602
02:49:29,330 --> 02:49:27,720
then you are breaking the rule of the

3603
02:49:32,270 --> 02:49:29,340
dominant religion these days which is

3604
02:49:34,219 --> 02:49:32,280
scientism and scientism is the which is

3605
02:49:34,490 --> 02:49:34,229
different than science but scientism is

3606
02:49:37,220 --> 02:49:34,500
the

3607
02:49:38,870 --> 02:49:37,230
idea that everything in reality all of

3608
02:49:41,360 --> 02:49:38,880
our experience can ultimately be

3609
02:49:45,490 --> 02:49:41,370
explained in terms of you know standard

3610
02:49:47,870 --> 02:49:45,500
kind of scientific procedures and and

3611
02:49:49,280 --> 02:49:47,880
chemical reactions so yeah yeah whatever

3612
02:49:51,740 --> 02:49:49,290
there's something ridiculous like that

3613
02:49:53,600 --> 02:49:51,750
and they and it and it goes back to

3614
02:49:55,730 --> 02:49:53,610
centuries because the idea is if you let

3615
02:49:57,710 --> 02:49:55,740
anything in that's not that then Oh God

3616
02:49:59,180 --> 02:49:57,720
God is coming back in you know religions

3617
02:50:01,760 --> 02:49:59,190
kept coming back in and all that kind of

3618
02:50:07,160 --> 02:50:01,770
stuff which really isn't the case but I

3619
02:50:08,750 --> 02:50:07,170
mean there is um well I mean I I've come

3620
02:50:10,790 --> 02:50:08,760
up against it a little bit myself where

3621
02:50:14,090 --> 02:50:10,800
there's there's there's one character I

3622
02:50:16,730 --> 02:50:14,100
don't know one and and and in the very

3623
02:50:18,560 --> 02:50:16,740
mild gentle way that I usually do that

3624
02:50:19,970 --> 02:50:18,570
yeah as you're saying well perhaps

3625
02:50:21,230 --> 02:50:19,980
there's something else here that we need

3626
02:50:22,940 --> 02:50:21,240
to look at and something along those

3627
02:50:25,550 --> 02:50:22,950
lines and this is like oh my god you

3628
02:50:27,740 --> 02:50:25,560
know Satan get thee behind me you know

3629
02:50:29,060 --> 02:50:27,750
so it's very much I mean this is I'm not

3630
02:50:31,130 --> 02:50:29,070
the first person to say these people

3631
02:50:33,070 --> 02:50:31,140
like Rupert Sheldrake and and others say

3632
02:50:35,120 --> 02:50:33,080
this kind of thing they're kind of anti

3633
02:50:39,560 --> 02:50:35,130
mystical whatever you want to call it

3634
02:50:42,830 --> 02:50:39,570
Antti metaphysical sentiment is the new

3635
02:50:44,150 --> 02:50:42,840
kind of dogma you know it's the same

3636
02:50:46,490 --> 02:50:44,160
thing as the church men who wouldn't

3637
02:50:48,680 --> 02:50:46,500
look through Galileo's telescope that's

3638
02:50:50,600 --> 02:50:48,690
right or the church men who argued

3639
02:50:52,160 --> 02:50:50,610
against you know Darwin or something

3640
02:50:54,830 --> 02:50:52,170
like that they just refused because they

3641
02:50:57,470 --> 02:50:54,840
have this this whole worldview that's

3642
02:51:00,020 --> 02:50:57,480
embedded and has been in place for quite

3643
02:51:01,940 --> 02:51:00,030
some time now and to give that up it's

3644
02:51:04,750 --> 02:51:01,950
like well the hope that everything will

3645
02:51:07,730 --> 02:51:04,760
collapse and they have millions and

3646
02:51:09,410 --> 02:51:07,740
millions of supporters and followers oh

3647
02:51:11,060 --> 02:51:09,420
yeah yeah and they also get money

3648
02:51:12,860 --> 02:51:11,070
because you need you know you need I

3649
02:51:15,320 --> 02:51:12,870
mean if you're doing the mystical thing

3650
02:51:18,070 --> 02:51:15,330
you don't need anything you don't need a

3651
02:51:21,020 --> 02:51:18,080
lab you don't need CERN you don't need

3652
02:51:25,190 --> 02:51:21,030
you don't need you know funding you just

3653
02:51:28,760 --> 02:51:25,200
need time and some seclusion and and you

3654
02:51:30,170 --> 02:51:28,770
know and then you can do it but all this

3655
02:51:33,650 --> 02:51:30,180
other stuff you need all this money and

3656
02:51:36,590 --> 02:51:33,660
funding and everything and they're

3657
02:51:37,820 --> 02:51:36,600
constantly promoting this idea and again

3658
02:51:39,530 --> 02:51:37,830
it's not only this because I'm sure

3659
02:51:41,270 --> 02:51:39,540
they're to some scientists who were

3660
02:51:43,400 --> 02:51:41,280
pursuing it you know for just for the

3661
02:51:45,410 --> 02:51:43,410
sake of of inquiry but they're pursuing

3662
02:51:48,130 --> 02:51:45,420
it to maintain the prestige and and and

3663
02:51:52,120 --> 02:51:49,360
well see and this is what's so

3664
02:51:54,790 --> 02:51:52,130
interesting when you go back to Steiner

3665
02:51:58,330 --> 02:51:54,800
or even and go back to young right and

3666
02:52:02,580 --> 02:51:58,340
and and read about what they were

3667
02:52:06,370 --> 02:52:02,590
talking about extra dimensions parallel

3668
02:52:09,550 --> 02:52:06,380
worlds consciousness existing out there

3669
02:52:12,580 --> 02:52:09,560
in the ether all of these things that

3670
02:52:15,700 --> 02:52:12,590
they spoke about back then or what

3671
02:52:20,520 --> 02:52:15,710
physics today and quantum physics

3672
02:52:24,810 --> 02:52:20,530
including going back to Copenhagen and

3673
02:52:29,680 --> 02:52:24,820
and even Einstein and and others

3674
02:52:33,011 --> 02:52:29,690
Schrodinger in that today string theory

3675
02:52:35,770 --> 02:52:33,021
what is it suggesting it's suggesting 11

3676
02:52:38,800 --> 02:52:35,780
dimensions right and and they are trying

3677
02:52:41,290 --> 02:52:38,810
to scientifically prove that quantum

3678
02:52:44,200 --> 02:52:41,300
mechanics and quantum theory multo you

3679
02:52:46,840 --> 02:52:44,210
know multi world multiverse all of these

3680
02:52:51,070 --> 02:52:46,850
are the concepts that philosophers and

3681
02:52:55,750 --> 02:52:51,080
and the mysticism that was presented

3682
02:52:59,290 --> 02:52:55,760
back in the 1920's 1930's 1940s through

3683
02:53:01,930 --> 02:52:59,300
to today it's it's now science is trying

3684
02:53:03,310 --> 02:53:01,940
to suggest that these things are real

3685
02:53:05,380 --> 02:53:03,320
but we knew it all along

3686
02:53:06,460 --> 02:53:05,390
oh that that's see that's how I feel and

3687
02:53:08,761 --> 02:53:06,470
I see this stuff I think that's

3688
02:53:11,790 --> 02:53:08,771
wonderful but you know come on guys it

3689
02:53:16,470 --> 02:53:11,800
but what I feel like is you know

3690
02:53:19,750 --> 02:53:16,480
indigenous people when you know the

3691
02:53:21,280 --> 02:53:19,760
colonizers turn up and you know plant

3692
02:53:23,230 --> 02:53:21,290
their flag in the name of you know

3693
02:53:24,340 --> 02:53:23,240
whoever and you say well hold on you

3694
02:53:27,700 --> 02:53:24,350
know we've been here for a long time

3695
02:53:29,740 --> 02:53:27,710
already and no III agree with you and

3696
02:53:31,480 --> 02:53:29,750
even young you know young when he wrote

3697
02:53:34,240 --> 02:53:31,490
his book on synchronicity he co-wrote it

3698
02:53:38,950 --> 02:53:34,250
with Wolfgang Pauli who's one of the you

3699
02:53:42,640 --> 02:53:38,960
know most important physicists of the

3700
02:53:44,290 --> 02:53:42,650
last century and power Lee was to talk

3701
02:53:49,900 --> 02:53:44,300
about synchronicities there's a whole

3702
02:53:51,490 --> 02:53:49,910
you may have heard it it's because for

3703
02:53:54,180 --> 02:53:51,500
some strange reason wherever he turned

3704
02:53:57,400 --> 02:53:54,190
up things went wrong you know

3705
02:53:58,960 --> 02:53:57,410
experiments went wrong you know lab

3706
02:54:00,671 --> 02:53:58,970
material blew up and things like that

3707
02:54:03,791 --> 02:54:00,681
and so he's he's some

3708
02:54:06,361 --> 02:54:03,801
I was jinxed in some way did you did you

3709
02:54:10,571 --> 02:54:06,371
know that young wrote a book on UFOs oh

3710
02:54:15,401 --> 02:54:10,581
yeah Marvin myth of things seen in the

3711
02:54:18,671 --> 02:54:15,411
sky yes have you read it and yeah it's

3712
02:54:19,991 --> 02:54:18,681
it's it's fascinating because he he's

3713
02:54:22,600 --> 02:54:20,001
one of the early ones sort of saying

3714
02:54:24,911 --> 02:54:22,610
like well maybe they're not you know

3715
02:54:25,390 --> 02:54:24,921
nuts and bolts you know crafts they're

3716
02:54:28,241 --> 02:54:25,400
somehow

3717
02:54:31,451 --> 02:54:28,251
psychic sorts of things and in the end I

3718
02:54:33,011 --> 02:54:31,461
mean I did a book on young called young

3719
02:54:35,531 --> 02:54:33,021
the mystic and sort of looking at this

3720
02:54:37,031 --> 02:54:35,541
more esoteric kind of a cult side of him

3721
02:54:38,980 --> 02:54:37,041
which she was involved in throughout his

3722
02:54:40,661 --> 02:54:38,990
career but he kind of played captain car

3723
02:54:43,571 --> 02:54:40,671
he played his cards close to his chest

3724
02:54:45,461 --> 02:54:43,581
for yes he did a long time until so the

3725
02:54:48,190 --> 02:54:45,471
forties when he had a heart attack and

3726
02:54:50,831 --> 02:54:48,200
he kind of came out of the closet but in

3727
02:54:53,921 --> 02:54:50,841
my chapter about this book in in my book

3728
02:54:56,140 --> 02:54:53,931
I called the UFOs mandalas from space

3729
02:54:57,821 --> 02:54:56,150
you know because they're because he sees

3730
02:54:59,801 --> 02:54:57,831
saw them as these kind of round you know

3731
02:55:02,440 --> 02:54:59,811
if you know young and if you know your

3732
02:55:04,301 --> 02:55:02,450
you know Tibetan Buddhism and also in

3733
02:55:06,841 --> 02:55:04,311
Hinduism the Mondelez is kind of Magic

3734
02:55:11,161 --> 02:55:06,851
Circle it's it's it's a painting

3735
02:55:14,470 --> 02:55:11,171
illustration of a kind of round

3736
02:55:16,031 --> 02:55:14,480
meditative kind of symbol and Jung

3737
02:55:19,361 --> 02:55:16,041
painted many of them and if you know his

3738
02:55:22,060 --> 02:55:19,371
red book which published about ten years

3739
02:55:25,511 --> 02:55:22,070
ago this was his record of the strange

3740
02:55:27,551 --> 02:55:25,521
kind of psychic breakdown he went he

3741
02:55:31,151 --> 02:55:27,561
went through following his breakup with

3742
02:55:34,211 --> 02:55:31,161
Freud and he related the the mondo of

3743
02:55:35,921 --> 02:55:34,221
this kind of round symbol to the state

3744
02:55:37,451 --> 02:55:35,931
of his own psyche and what he says in

3745
02:55:41,051 --> 02:55:37,461
the UFO book is that what was happening

3746
02:55:42,970 --> 02:55:41,061
and in the world then was that there was

3747
02:55:46,331 --> 02:55:42,980
this schizophrenic tension between the

3748
02:55:48,100 --> 02:55:46,341
east and west and the planet itself was

3749
02:55:51,491 --> 02:55:48,110
somehow generating these images as

3750
02:55:54,281 --> 02:55:51,501
symbols of wholeness you know and they

3751
02:55:56,350 --> 02:55:54,291
were both kind of the goal that you're

3752
02:55:57,701 --> 02:55:56,360
moving towards and if you know you and

3753
02:55:59,651 --> 02:55:57,711
this is something he talks about the

3754
02:56:01,270 --> 02:55:59,661
kind of psychic wholeness again you can

3755
02:56:03,041 --> 02:56:01,280
get back to lift in my brain you know

3756
02:56:07,211 --> 02:56:03,051
working together right right at the same

3757
02:56:08,741 --> 02:56:07,221
time it's a means of achieving that so

3758
02:56:10,121 --> 02:56:08,751
kind of the mandala is what you're

3759
02:56:11,951 --> 02:56:10,131
heading towards but it's also by

3760
02:56:14,020 --> 02:56:11,961
meditating on it you you you sort of

3761
02:56:15,970 --> 02:56:14,030
percent on your way

3762
02:56:18,520 --> 02:56:15,980
no I think young is one of these you

3763
02:56:23,350 --> 02:56:18,530
know he I would say Blavatsky and then

3764
02:56:25,390 --> 02:56:23,360
young and then the third one probably

3765
02:56:27,730 --> 02:56:25,400
almost equality but these are the three

3766
02:56:29,440 --> 02:56:27,740
who kind of really reintroduced the

3767
02:56:31,870 --> 02:56:29,450
whole occult esoteric magical

3768
02:56:33,820 --> 02:56:31,880
consciousness to the West and in the 60s

3769
02:56:35,100 --> 02:56:33,830
and and and and we know Nicoli and

3770
02:56:37,690 --> 02:56:35,110
younger on the cover of The Beatles

3771
02:56:40,000 --> 02:56:37,700
sergeant pepper's Auden and that that's

3772
02:56:41,860 --> 02:56:40,010
a whole nother show I know that we

3773
02:56:44,820 --> 02:56:41,870
discussed holy Russia tonight and the

3774
02:56:49,090 --> 02:56:44,830
book is fantastic I highly recommend it

3775
02:56:52,030 --> 02:56:49,100
to everyone but I really look forward to

3776
02:56:54,040 --> 02:56:52,040
the next show where we can discuss you

3777
02:56:56,770 --> 02:56:54,050
know philosophy and consciousness and

3778
02:56:59,050 --> 02:56:56,780
and and and roll this whole thing into

3779
02:57:01,840 --> 02:56:59,060
the music world too as well it would

3780
02:57:03,490 --> 02:57:01,850
just be a great conversation sounds

3781
02:57:06,150 --> 02:57:03,500
wonderful I love - thank you so much

3782
02:57:09,250 --> 02:57:06,160
Gary be safe out there go get your rest

3783
02:57:11,470 --> 02:57:09,260
you - thank you so much and yes is great

3784
02:57:15,460 --> 02:57:11,480
thank you so much great conversation

3785
02:57:18,070 --> 02:57:15,470
take care Gary Lachman and the website

3786
02:57:20,830 --> 02:57:18,080
for Gary which is over at Jimmy Church

3787
02:57:23,920 --> 02:57:20,840
radio calm as Gary Lachman co dot UK but

3788
02:57:26,620 --> 02:57:23,930
the links are over at Jimmy Church radio

3789
02:57:28,660 --> 02:57:26,630
calm the new book is called the return

3790
02:57:31,060 --> 02:57:28,670
of holy Russia apocalyptic history

3791
02:57:33,250 --> 02:57:31,070
mystical awakening and the struggle for

3792
02:57:35,590 --> 02:57:33,260
the soul of the world the links are up

3793
02:57:37,690 --> 02:57:35,600
in Twitter and we've also got those over

3794
02:57:39,460 --> 02:57:37,700
on the website with that we went

3795
02:57:42,010 --> 02:57:39,470
bumper-to-bumper I'm gonna get out of

3796
02:57:44,500 --> 02:57:42,020
here tomorrow night who do we have on

3797
02:57:46,180 --> 02:57:44,510
tomorrow tomorrow night Greg house right

3798
02:57:48,460 --> 02:57:46,190
here on fade to black

3799
02:57:50,801 --> 02:57:48,470
fade to black s-- executive producer is

3800
02:57:56,411 --> 02:57:50,811
rita kumar eons

3801
02:57:59,741 --> 02:57:56,421
show is produced by I've but drop my

3802
02:58:01,930 --> 02:57:59,751
notes from my screen in front of it

3803
02:58:04,270 --> 02:58:01,940
shows produced by Hill Jay Paul Renee

3804
02:58:06,190 --> 02:58:04,280
Dennis and Kevin announcers are Steve

3805
02:58:08,770 --> 02:58:06,200
Carter Jean Vitello Mark D Cove our

3806
02:58:11,411 --> 02:58:08,780
webmaster is through the geek music doug

3807
02:58:13,991 --> 02:58:11,421
aldrich intro space boys space boy music

3808
02:58:18,520 --> 02:58:14,001
calm fade to black that's produced by

3809
02:58:20,801 --> 02:58:18,530
kjsurya and syndication is k GRA the

3810
02:58:22,751 --> 02:58:20,811
planet whose podcast on the copyright of

3811
02:58:23,711 --> 02:58:22,761
2020 by fade to black in the game

3812
02:58:25,871 --> 02:58:23,721
changer network

3813
02:58:27,430 --> 02:58:25,881
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

3814
02:58:29,470 --> 02:58:27,440
copied or used anywhere in the known

3815
02:58:31,031 --> 02:58:29,480
universe without written permission from

3816
02:58:33,190 --> 02:58:31,041
fade to black of the game changer

3817
02:58:35,770 --> 02:58:33,200
network I'm arrows to me Church very

3818
02:58:38,350 --> 02:58:35,780
special thanks to Gary Lachman great

3819
02:58:41,921 --> 02:58:38,360
conversation tonight tomorrow night Greg

3820
02:58:42,751 --> 02:58:41,931
house until then I want everybody to be